Political discussions about everything
#18455
A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens in the USA if they are believed to be “operational leaders” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.

The 16-page memo, a copy of which was obtained by NBC News, provides new details about the legal reasoning behind one of the Obama administration’s most secretive and controversial polices: its dramatically increased use of drone strikes against suspects, including those aimed at American citizens, such as the September 2011 strike in Yemen that killed alleged al-Qaida operatives Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan. Both were U.S. citizens who had never been indicted by the U.S. government nor charged with any crimes.

But the confidential Justice Department “white paper” introduces a more expansive definition of self-defense or imminent attack than described by Brennan or Holder in their public speeches. It refers, for example, to what it calls a “broader concept of imminence” than actual intelligence about any ongoing plot against the U.S. homeland.

An “informed, high-level” official of the U.S. government may determine that the targeted American has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threatand “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.” The memo does not define “recently” or “activities.”

This is a chilling document,” said Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU, which has sued unsuccessfully in court to obtain administration memos about the targeted killing of Americans. “Basically, it argues that the government has the right to carry out the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen Obama considers a threat to America as he sees it should be. "

In one passage in Holder’s speech at Northwestern in March, he alluded – without spelling out—that there might be circumstances where the president might order attacks against American citizens without specific knowledge of when or where an attack against the U.S. might take place.

“The Constitution does not require the president to delay action until some theoretical end-stage of planning, when the precise time, place and manner of an attack become clear,” he said.


“A lawful killing is not an assassination,” the white paper reads. “In the Department’s view, a lethal operation conducted against a U.S. citizen whose conduct poses a threat against the United States would be a legitimate act of national self-defense that would not violate the assassination ban. Similarly, the use of lethal force, consistent with the laws of war, against an individual who is a legitimate military target would be lawful and would not violate the assassination ban.”
Hitler started the same way, ignoring the German Constitution, turning Germans against Germans, spending to buy support without regard to debt, hand outs to hard core members who agreed with his agenda, installing his puppets, disarming private Germans then declaring those who didn't agree with him as "threats to Germany". Obama is using Hitler's play book.
#18495
It's self defense to eliminate enemy forces who are targeting the United States, whether they are citizens or not. So if a US citizen was suspected to be in the presence of Bin Laden prior to the raid. What was the government supposed to do?

Call it off????????????????????
#18497
elklindo69 wrote:It's self defense to eliminate enemy forces who are targeting the United States, whether they are citizens or not. So if a US citizen was suspected to be in the presence of Bin Laden prior to the raid. What was the government supposed to do?

Call it off????????????????????
Maybe you missed this part: "U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens in the USA if they are believed to be “operational leaders” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S."

Now, if Bush had done something like this, every swinging dick in the news, congress, and every democrat/liberal group on the planet would be crying and demanding his resignation, but, almost nothing from any of those groups.

Also, did you note that it doesn't take a Court's permission, and that an unknown person can make the decision without congressional/court approval?
#18501
It's self defense to eliminate enemy forces who are targeting the United States, whether they are citizens or not. So if a US citizen was suspected to be in the presence of Bin Laden prior to the raid. What was the government supposed to do?
The memo doesn't require the US Citizen be holed up with a terrorist, it allows the President to kill any American he "deems" a threat, no trial, no hearings, no Congressional approval, no evidence required, just information he considers, evaluates and acts on with no oversight or no controls over his ability to kill any America he deems a threat. Hitler gave himself the same powers.
#18507
Leroy wrote:
elklindo69 wrote:It's self defense to eliminate enemy forces who are targeting the United States, whether they are citizens or not. So if a US citizen was suspected to be in the presence of Bin Laden prior to the raid. What was the government supposed to do?

Call it off????????????????????
Maybe you missed this part: "U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens in the USA if they are believed to be “operational leaders” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S."

Now, if Bush had done something like this, every swinging dick in the news, congress, and every democrat/liberal group on the planet would be crying and demanding his resignation, but, almost nothing from any of those groups.

Also, did you note that it doesn't take a Court's permission, and that an unknown person can make the decision without congressional/court approval?
Name one time where a US citizen, on United States soil was ever killed through an executive order by the President.
#18510
RealJustme wrote:
It's self defense to eliminate enemy forces who are targeting the United States, whether they are citizens or not. So if a US citizen was suspected to be in the presence of Bin Laden prior to the raid. What was the government supposed to do?
The memo doesn't require the US Citizen be holed up with a terrorist, it allows the President to kill any American he "deems" a threat, no trial, no hearings, no Congressional approval, no evidence required, just information he considers, evaluates and acts on with no oversight or no controls over his ability to kill any America he deems a threat. Hitler gave himself the same powers.
Bush defined international terrorism as the equivalent of war. Thereby any US citizen who is engaged in terrorist activities is considered a combatant. On US soil people who are suspected as terrorists have been arrested by the police. There have been no drone strikes on US soil. Drone strikes are necessary on foreign soil because they cannot be captured by US forces.

It's that simple...
#18514
Drone strikes are necessary on foreign soil because they cannot be captured by US forces.

It's that simple...
I remember you peed your pants when Bush authorized pouring water on 3 terrorists faces to find out where the next attacks will be...now your OK with authority to blow up Americans who may be a threat as determined by Obama based upon information that doesn't have to be verified? You do know that one of Obama's drone attacks on an American also killed a 16 year old kid from Colorado...don't you? Where is the outrage?
#18532
elklindo69 wrote: Bush defined international terrorism as the equivalent of war. Thereby any US citizen who is engaged in terrorist activities is considered a combatant. On US soil people who are suspected as terrorists have been arrested by the police. There have been no drone strikes on US soil. Drone strikes are necessary on foreign soil because they cannot be captured by US forces.

It's that simple...
And yet you've missed how Obama has declared that someone called a terrorist, with no proof, connected to ANY group, ON US SOIL, can be assassinated without any legal approval.

Killing a person that has openly admitted to supporting and killing Americans, claiming to be at War with the USA, in a foreign country, that has renounced their US citizenship, is nothing like what Obama is saying he has a right to do inside the USA.

Remember, Obama considers anyone that doesn't agree with him to be a Terrorist.
#18536
Denying Americans due process of law, ie. innocent until proven guilty in my opinion is wrong. We have not declared war lately, thus cannot use war as an expiediant to circumvent our rights as Americans to due justice. Lincoln and Roosevelt used denying Habeas corpus, and imprisoning japanese Americans as just due to the expiediency of war. Both were shown to be unconstitional. I believe Obama is oversteping his bounds, and in the long run will regret this decision.
#18548
I remember you peed your pants when Bush authorized pouring water on 3 terrorists faces to find out where the next attacks will be...now your OK with authority to blow up Americans who may be a threat as determined by Obama based upon information that doesn't have to be verified?
Yep!


GDTTFF.... :lol:
#18649
Leroy wrote:
elklindo69 wrote: Bush defined international terrorism as the equivalent of war. Thereby any US citizen who is engaged in terrorist activities is considered a combatant. On US soil people who are suspected as terrorists have been arrested by the police. There have been no drone strikes on US soil. Drone strikes are necessary on foreign soil because they cannot be captured by US forces.

It's that simple...
And yet you've missed how Obama has declared that someone called a terrorist, with no proof, connected to ANY group, ON US SOIL, can be assassinated without any legal approval.

Killing a person that has openly admitted to supporting and killing Americans, claiming to be at War with the USA, in a foreign country, that has renounced their US citizenship, is nothing like what Obama is saying he has a right to do inside the USA.

Remember, Obama considers anyone that doesn't agree with him to be a Terrorist.
Name one incident where a the president through an executive order has killed a terrorist on US SOIL?

Here in NYC they just arrested some guy who attempted to blow up the federal reserve building.

Where was the assassination???
#18653
Elk, how would we know - it's not like he was forthcoming with the information on the program. You do know that Obama and his fascist regime has been labeling a lot of citizens terrorists, all the time, and now that we know that some unnamed, without legal review, can approve the assassination of civilians on US Soil, well, do you really think that Obama will sit back and not use that power that he created?

Is there a bigger cuck piece of shit?

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