[RealJustme]

The Pentagon on Wednesday relaxed its rules governing the religious apparel and facial hair that troops can wear or maintain while in uniform.

The Defense Department issued the changes via a directive Wednesday afternoon. As part of the military's changing approach to making religious accommodations, the new policy will allow service members to sport different kinds of religious garb and hairstyles.

The changes create several new categories, besides clothing, of religion-based features that can be displayed by troops. These now include facial hair, such as beards, and religious piercings.

President Obama announced the changes were way over due. "U.S. court have long ruled that Muslims have the right to wear beards and religious apparel in the workplace yet they have been denied those rights by our military. These news instruction will reduce both the instances and perception of discrimination among all military members and allow Muslims serving our Country to practice their religious expressions."

The Koran not only says Muslim men should have beards, it also says they can not kill fellow Muslims and that any enemy of one Muslim is the enemy of all Muslims and should be killed. Obama continues his destruction of the military.

All military equipment that fits on the face is designed for clean shaven faces, so does that mean the military will have to design special equipment just for Muslims? Imagine getting a gas mask to seal putting it on over a beard. :shock:

[johnforbes]

The agenda from the mudpit at Woodstock continues.

Muslims, gays, and gals and the U.S. never needs to fret about small matters such as getting tough guys into battle.

And, of course, why fret about a small matter such as winning a war?

Political Correctness is more important.

[Grog]

Aren't SEALs and Special Forces allowed, if not encouraged to wear beards in places like Afghanistan?

If only Leroy wasn't still incarcerated, he could answer that question.


Relax, Forbes. Technically you are still covered under "Don't ask, Don't Tell."

[elklindo69]

Stop Grog...

You're wasting your time, these people are linear thinkers, you know, don't cross the line. Faux news viewers are not known for out of the box thinking....

[RealJustme]

Aren't SEALs and Special Forces allowed, if not encouraged to wear beards in places like Afghanistan?

You read to many comics. There are some special operations troops that try to fit in with the scum bags by lowering their hygiene standards and then there are some that just don't have the opportunity to do it. No where in Obama's or the military's statement did they say this new policy only pertained to special forces in Afghanistan.

[sillydaddy]

Relax all of you, .....Think of it this way, the bearded Muzzie will be easier to spot through our scopes when the REAL SHIT hits the fan and we have to fight them in our own streets. And don't think it won't come someday.....sooner than you think. Already our last line of defense is being disarmed. I'm talking about our citizen soldiers. The DD has just announced that the National Guard must surrender all it armed and attack helicopters , especially Apache attack helicopters by 2015. The argument is that the NG only needs transports because they are not fighting forces and only do rescue work.

[Grog]

Comics? Well, I do check Foxnews.com from time to time for their unintentional hilarity.

Again, if Leroy was here he would clarify the SEALs and Special Forces wearing of beards in Afghanistan.

And despite what you might claim, JustFreedManMe, the rule change isn't just for Muslims.

The US military is easing its uniform rules to allow religious wear including turbans, skullcaps, beards and tattoos, officials have said.

Muslim, Sikh, Jewish and Wiccan soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen can now request exemptions to strict military uniform and grooming policies.

Requests will be evaluated individually and can be denied if they hinder military readiness.

Previously, at least three Sikhs had won specific accommodation.

And don't worry, Silly, if you don't already, you'll soon be living safe and secure in the nation of Texas. You guys will be able to express your Second Amendment (which will probably be the First Amendment in your new country) anywhere and anytime you darn tootin' feel like it. You can shoot down each other's drones and Fox News helicopters jist fer funnin!

[sillydaddy]

Hey Grog, I invite you to tour the TWC with me I hear the view of the New York skyline is awesome!.......Oh wait....never mind.

[RealJustme]

And despite what you might claim, JustFreedManMe, the rule change isn't just for Muslims.

What other religion requires a man to have a beard?

[Grog]

Since you asked so nicely, and you like CNN, today, you may start your research here
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/28/sikh.u ... l?_s=PM:US" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




Relax, Silly. Shouldn't you be watching Duck Dynasty or something educational on Fox News? I have no idea what 9/11, which happened under a hawkish Republican, has to do with this, but apparently you do. Are you guys planning on building new twin towers in your new nation and daring someone to knock them down?

[johnforbes]

Elkin, please stop the simpering appeals to Grog.

If you must engage in such effete, self-congratulatory blather, at least email Grog in private.

Elkin, the intrinsic notion in what you said to Grog is that you -- and those of your ideational ilk -- are somehow brighter than those lesser individuals who might watch Fox News (which, in a childish and failed attempt at wit, you label "Faux").

But Elkin, what is your formal educational background? Do you and Grog even have undergrad degrees?

This forum is, of course, a cesspool, but there's no evidence from Elkin's posts or Grog's that they possess anything other than very ordinary cerebral endowments.

[Clownkicker]

johnfoirbes, please stop the simpering.

If you must engage in such effete, self-congratulatory blather, at least do it on the treadmill while teasing Mr. Big in you tight shorts, as he told us you did in the past.

johnforbes, the intrinsic notion in what you said to elklindo is that you -- and those of your ideational ilk -- are somehow brighter than those lesser individuals who might not watch Fox News (which might accurately be called FAUXnews as the right to tell lies was Murdock's legal defense in court.)

But johnforbes, nobody cares what your formal educational background is. You are clearly a fool regardless of your education.

This forum is, of course, a cesspool, but there's no evidence from johnforbes' posts that he possesses anything other than very ordinary cerebral endowment

[Grog]

How's your research coming along, JustFreedManMe?

I'm sure you've uncovered something from some blog somewhere that...












Marco

[RealJustme]

Let's look at what Obama has done for our military. Put in rules they can't fire until fired upon, placed gays in the barracks and shower rooms, females that can't pass physical minimum requirements into combat units, allowed single parents with several kids to join, cut retirement benefits, appointed a left wing wacko as their leader and now putting our number one enemies in their ranks...just watch next he'll cut their budget.

[Leroy]

Comics? Well, I do check Foxnews.com from time to time for their unintentional hilarity.

Again, if Leroy was here he would clarify the SEALs and Special Forces wearing of beards in Afghanistan.

Grog, there are several classes of fighters that can/are permitted to have facial hair, but, when they must be in dress uniform they must shave.

Interesting note - while beards DO impact the proper use of a gas mask, meaning that you can not get a clean seal, there are ways around it - you can use Vaseline, caked on enough, to get a good seal for a short period of time.

[Leroy]

What Grog failed to see is that this rule changed isn't about those few special combat groups, it's about the entire service.

Can you imagine having to depend on someone that has a beard, to save your life, or to protect something, while they are choking/incapacitated because their failure to get a good seal on the mask is killing them...

[johnforbes]

Grog, like Clownhicker, has often been bearded in his own den of denseness.

[Grog]

What "Leroy" failed to see, much less comprehend is "Requests will be evaluated individually and can be denied if they hinder military readiness."










VX

[Leroy]

What "Leroy" failed to see, much less comprehend is "Requests will be evaluated individually and can be denied if they hinder military readiness."

No, what you failed to understand is that ANY wearing of facial hair impacts Military Readiness - and that Obama's point is to make our Military ineffective as possible.

There is no good reason to allow BEARDS - if you are unwiling to do the job as it stands, don't apply for the job. You don't have a "RIGHT" to serve in the US Military.

[Grog]

Hmmmm. As a former REMF yourself, perhaps you can tell us how any facial hair would degrade the readiness of a drone operator in Arizona? An enlisted IT guy at the Pentagon?

[Leroy]

Hmmmm. As a former REMF yourself, perhaps you can tell us how any facial hair would degrade the readiness of a drone operator in Arizona? An enlisted IT guy at the Pentagon?

Since you appear to have never served, I guess I can understand your inability to think:

Gas Mask - period, simple.

[Grog]

That's why I asked you about the drone operator and the IT guy. Do you think those REMFs carry gas masks in case of a fire or enemy attack? If so, do they also carry sidearms at all times?

Maybe you believe all military personnel should carry gas masks and sidearms at all times, but that's not how it is in real reality. I'm pretty sure in regard to the beard and gas mask issue, anyone going into an area where there is a likelihood of combat and gas being used, will have to shave like they do now.

But you don't need to believe that, if you don't want to.

[Clownkicker]

johnforbes actually believes the beard he married convinces people he's straight.

Stop kidding yourself, johnny.
Nobody is buying it.

[RealJustme]

Maybe you believe all military personnel should carry gas masks and sidearms at all times

No but they should be prepared to wear gas masks and carry weapons at "any" time!

[Grog]

Then by that token, and logic, so should civilians, especially civilians employed on military bases. Should everyone on a military installation, military personnel and civilian contractor-types, also wear body armor at all times? Bio-hazard suits? Night vision equipment? Carry two-way radios?

I mean, half-assed paranoia isn't paranoia at all. As I recall, Leroy is ALWAYS armed when he is inside his own home with points of vulnerability (doors) securely bolted. I would imagine he also carries a gas mask in a hip pouch and has the other accouterments listed above in a backpack he never takes off, not even to bathe.

[Leroy]

Grog - when you join the Military you are owned (effectively) by the Military, and YOU make the choice to abide by their rules, like with most jobs. If you don't agree with the rules, don't apply for the job, it's that simple.

As for Civilians, it doesn't matter, their contracts don't include being ready in mission critical stations like our Military members do.

Leave it to a never-throught-of-serving person to fail to understand.

[elklindo69]

If their beards don't interfere with their job function then there is no issue. Bearded men are being given religious exemptions. And for practical intents and purposes, it's highly unlikely that they will be donning gas masks anyway...

[Grog]

Exactly. And it's not a blanket lifting of the regulation. Members will have to get permission. That's why I used the drone operators and IT guys. If Leroy was going to successfully make it a blanket thing, he would have to include civilians in all areas who likewise have to be prepared to don gas masks.

Leroy doesn't want to admit it, but he knows knows this because he acknowledge "mission critical stations." There's a literal world of difference between a forward area in Afghanistan and the Pentagon. At the same time he also acknowledges that there "are several classes of fighters in Afghanistan that are allowed facial hair."


Justme started this as an anti-Muslim troll, and like most of his trolls it backfired. We do get the added bonus of him dragging Leroy into the bunker.









Van Dyke

[RealJustme]

Elk- It's highly unlikely that they will be donning gas masks anyway

Grog- Exactly

Using Elk's and Grog's logic, why issue weapons to our troops, it's highly unlikely they'll actually have to shoot at a person. Liberals are really stupid when it comes to the real world. :lol:

[Grog]

Apparently in JustFreedManMe's "real" world, service members stationed at the Pentagon should carry sidearms at all times.

I suppose that makes sense since they are in the military.










Col. Kurtz

[sillydaddy]

Apparently in JustFreedManMe's "real" world, service members stationed at the Pentagon should carry sidearms at all times.

I suppose that makes sense since they are in the military.

LOL ! Grog just realized how stupid his arguments have been..........he just remembered what happened at Fort Hood.

[Grog]

Good lord.

And by the same logic, we should ban airplanes from the skies because they were used on 9/11.

[RealJustme]

And by the same logic, we should ban airplanes from the skies because they were used on 9/11.

What's that have to with degrading military readiness to appease Muslims?

[Grog]

Just following Silly's "logic" in regard to Ft. Hood. He, like you, apparently believes ALL military people should be armed and gas-masked at ALL times. Anything less is clearly degrading military preparedness.











Col. Bat Guano

[sillydaddy]

There's a literal world of difference between a forward area in Afghanistan and the Pentagon. --Grog

Nidal Hasan showed us that can change in an instant, eh Grog !

[Grog]

See, JustFreedManMe? Silly and you are on the same page. In the conservative mind, because something CAN happen, it WILL happen.

So, Silly, you do want ALL military personnel armed at ALL times? If so, you should contact Chairman Issa and demand that he demand ALL military personnel be armed and masked at ALL times.

What about planes similar to the ones used on 9/11? Should they be allowed to continue flying? I mean, if 9/11 happened once, it's gonna happen again, right?

[johnforbes]

It is, of course, totally preposterous for soldiers at Hood to be unarmed.

The result was slaughter, some of which surely would have been averted had Political Correctness not ruled the day.

[Grog]

OK, Forbes. Here's the guy http://mckeon.house.gov/contact/contactbuck.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you and Silly need to contact to get this moving. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services committee so he would be the guy for you to talk to about ensuring that ALL service members are armed at ALL times. And just so we can sort of stay on topic, you can tell him about JustFreedManMe and Leroy's displeasure about how allowing a few guys to wear beards is degrading military preparedness.

You might also contact the NRA and some companies that manufacture guns so they can lobby for the "Armed At All Times" program you believe is needed. You could additionally contact the American Barbers Association as well as razor and shaving cream companies to throw their lobbying weight around.

I see another conservative triumph for Fear, Freedom and shorn Face Follicles!






Sweeny

[johnforbes]

Oh please, nobody suggested all soldiers armed at all times.

What was suggested, and is utterly reasonable, is that concealed carry is okay on military bases.

And that some soldiers, not just some MPs or rental cops, would be armed on a vast base.

It isn't a joke when people die needlessly in Benghazi or at Ft Hood.

[Grog]

Let's see; Armed young men fueled by testosterone and amped on alcohol in the EM club on Saturday night? What could go wrong? It never causes trouble in civilian communities, why wouldn't the military want it, especially considering that the CC rate would be like 99% for young male military personnel?

Remember, according to conservative ideology, the best way to deal with gun violence is to create more opportunities for gun violence.

I seem to recall the historical precedence for not allowing soldiers to carry firearms on installations goes back at least as far as the War of Righteous Northern Punishment on the forebears of today's Tea Partiers. I believe the practice was largely implemented to protect patrician officers from plebeian enlisted.

At times you have claimed to be some kind of paralegal, or perhaps a paralawyer, so DOD Directive 5210.56 (Feb 1992) and 10 U.S.C. § 1585a (July 1958).

There is a current Tea Party-led attempt to repeal. I'm sure they would welcome your learned legal advice and support.











Oliver

[Leroy]

What I see from this thread is that Liberals don't want to follow regulations or laws that they don't like, and they are willing to take jobs that they are unwilling to comply with the known requirements of just so that they can claim foul and get the regulations changed - no real purpose other than to change something that doesn't really matter to them.

[elklindo69]

Since when were government rules and regulations ever written in stone? Are people too brain locked to think that rules and regulations cannot evolve to accommodate the needs of a changing society. When the regulations were written, they never took into the consideration the possibility of people who for religious reasons wear beards.

Now there are patriotic Sikhs and Muslims who want to serve the nation. So are we supposed create and follow outdated rules and regulations just for the sake of it???

[johnforbes]

There was a draft in the Civil War, but beards were common then.

Without researching this, I assume short hair came into military vogue during WW I more as a medical thing.

Later, of course, consistent grooming standards became more of a discipline and uniformity matter.

Carving out exceptions for this or that religious group, well, everybody knows that in the 1960s and 1970s blacks claimed beard-area dermatitis problems in the Army so they could wear beards.

Bottom line, the US military is ruining its efficacy for the greater cause of Political Correctness. Did the US attempt to win in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so forth? No, it did not. They sought geopolitical holding patterns.

[sillydaddy]

I seem to recall the historical precedence for not allowing soldiers to carry firearms on installations goes back at least as far as the War of Righteous Northern Punishment on the forebears of today's Tea Partiers. I believe the practice was largely implemented to protect patrician officers from plebeian enlisted.

At times you have claimed to be some kind of paralegal, or perhaps a paralawyer, so DOD Directive 5210.56 (Feb 1992) and 10 U.S.C. § 1585a (July 1958). ~ Grog

Since when were government rules and regulations ever written in stone? Are people too brain locked to think that rules and regulations cannot evolve to accommodate the needs of a changing society..... ~ elk

Times have changed. It is no longer 1958 or 1992. Our generation knows nothing of what its like to fight a war on our own soil and even less of how to prepare ourselves for one . We have seen what happened on 9/11, at Fort Hood, at the Boston marathon, our enemies did that to our citizens and we're still in denial. The war is coming to us. Look at those images coming out of the Middle East, that will be us in a few years if we don't get our heads out our asses.

[RealJustme]

Look at those images coming out of the Middle East, that will be us in a few years if we don't get our heads out our asses.

There already is a war going on in the United States in many of our inner cities. There are areas that police won't go into without SWAT type backups. A white person walking into those areas at night will be attacked and no one will do anything about it, including the police. Attacking a white person is acceptable if it's done in their parts of the city. Obama and other black leaders are spreading the them and those hatred, it will get worse. Public leaders have tied the police's hands behind their backs and installed police chiefs that fire those who try and stop the black on white crimes.

If you're not prepared to protect yourself and your family, no one else can.

[Grog]

You're definitely not a para-litigator, Forbes; your inability to form and sustain any coherent argument would get you disbarred from high school moot court proceedings.




Silly, I said there is a congressional Tea Party effort to repeal the egregious and outdated laws that unjustly prevent Ramboing on military installations. Contact your nearest Tea Party representative today and become part of the solution!

[johnforbes]

Context, little Mr. Grog. This isn't the Oxford Union.

No sane person would waste reasoned argument on a dope such as yourself.

Of course, if you'd like to look at my credentials, simply email me a link to your site and, assuming you have any credentials in the real world, you can look at my vanity wall.

But, Grog, you don't have any credentials in the real world.

[Grog]

Since you've never shown an iota of ability to form, much less sustain a reasoned or even reasonable argument, it's a good thing this isn't the Oxford Union or even a union hall where your intellectual inabilities would relegate you to janitorial tasks that would be menial for most, but highly skilled for you.

Were you to know of my credentials, you would undoubtedly feel like less of a man than you already do, despite the fact that is seemingly impossible.








Clarence

[johnforbes]

Grog, don't torture yourself with doubt.

Simply email me with a link to your own professional web site, I'll look at it and see if you have any real credentials, and then reply with a link to my professional site.

No, I won't disclose your professional info to anybody here. Yes, I'll be responsible with it.

But here's your problem, Grog. I actually do have credentials, and I actually do have a history of military service, and I actually did grow up doing manual labor, and I really do still run outside (when ice and snow don't cover the roads in the office park where I run).

So, Grog, that's your problem, and it has been the problem for your ilk. You, Grog, are fake, but others are not.

[Clownkicker]

" You, Grog, are fake, but others are not."-johnforbes

Thanks for the vote of confidence in me, johnny.