[mattg2k4]

Based on what has been published here on VW and Igor's apparent new site, here's my theory on what went down:

1) Igor was unhappy with how the business he was working for was being managed.

2) Igor decides to leave and start a competing business more in line with his vision.

I'm with him so far, this is all above board assuming he didn't sign any non-compete agreement.

3) Igor decides to sabotage his employer on the way out the door and plans this out well in advance.
3a) He steals the membership and username and password database. That's how he can give credit on his new site for RC/HC members.
3b) While still working for VW he courts submitters to defect to his new site.
3c) He (maybe) steals user submissions. Users retain rights to their submissions but it isn't clear yet if his new site has permission for all of the submissions. VW submitters should check to make sure that their work is not being stolen.
3d) He probably has stolen some of the software behind VW. His new site states "... helping us with some of his php-libraries, so we hadn't do all coding from scratch!", strongly implying that the code was appropriated. The look and feel of the new site closely mirrors VW, suggesting some stolen code.
3e) He sabotages the VW websites, it sounds like for a time they were redirecting to his new site but he has clearly done enough damage that it will take them a lot of work to get it back up. Given his trusted status and that he has clearly been planning this he could have done extensive damage on his way out of the door.

I'm sure there are details we don't know yet, but it sounds like Igor really fucked up here. He could have made a graceful exit and started his competing website, but instead he decided to do a lot of damage on his way out the door probably trying to force VW out of business. Some of this is clearly illegal in most jurisdictions. If he had just started a new website which better met my needs I could see myself becoming a member, but I don't see myself giving money to somebody who would sabotage a popular website that I enjoy just because he's disgruntled at work.

Now the website I like visiting will be down for several days due to his sabotage and he expects me to just pop on over to his new site as though what he did was okay? Get real. I can go a few days without VW but I'm not going to support that kind of backstabbing.

Anybody else have thoughts?

[rugrollers]

The competing theory being advanced yesterday when the old BBs were still running was some sort of elaborate scheme whereby Igor actually controls both sites and the whole defection/hacking/disabling business was fabricated to enable him to walk away from some sort of urgent legal and/or financial liabilities on the original site, leaving it to die while he continues with the other one (somehow better shielded legally). I'm no lawyer, so maybe that's possible, but the more I think about it the more far-fetched it seems.

But on this score:

Now the website I like visiting will be down for several days due to his sabotage and he expects me to just pop on over to his new site as though what he did was okay?

-- you might be surprised at how many people are already over on the new site, apparently with no qualms at all. I suspect once VW is back in service, assuming they do some plausible explaining and everything is back in working order, I imagine most will stick with it. But it will be interesting to see.

Meanwhile, requests for explanations on the other site's forum are basically being ignored.

[mattg2k4]

The competing theory being advanced yesterday when the old BBs were still running was some sort of elaborate scheme whereby Igor actually controls both sites and the whole defection/hacking/disabling business was fabricated to enable him to walk away from some sort of urgent legal and/or financial liabilities on the original site, leaving it to die while he continues with the other one (somehow better shielded legally). I'm no lawyer, so maybe that's possible, but the more I think about it the more far-fetched it seems.

Interesting idea, one that I hadn't considered. But I would think if there were some liabilities (legal or financial) associated with the VW name then the creditors or investigators could simply follow to the new site. I'm not a lawyer either so I couldn't say for sure. Disgruntled employees committing sabotage seems more likely to me. But either way something fishy has been going on and I'm sure it will take some time for the dust to settle before we find out the full story, if we ever do.

Now the website I like visiting will be down for several days due to his sabotage and he expects me to just pop on over to his new site as though what he did was okay?

-- you might be surprised at how many people are already over on the new site, apparently with no qualms at all. I suspect once VW is back in service, assuming they do some plausible explaining and everything is back in working order, I imagine most will stick with it. But it will be interesting to see.

Meanwhile, requests for explanations on the other site's forum are basically being ignored.

This doesn't surprise me too much, a big part of it is probably the fact that VW is down and Igor's new site isn't, and people aren't too picky where the content comes from when it's good quality and free. Part of it is probably also people associating the VW brand with Igor himself and being content to follow him.

[Stacy69]

I think the majority will stick with VW. It's what we know, it has more functionality, it has history. Any explanation regarding how the new site came up and why contains content that was posted only on VW/RC will be questionable and I don't think any fair minded person would trust a transition done in this fashion.

[Stacy69]

What also concerns me is that while the other site is up and running, nobody is providing any insights into what happened even though they clearly have every chance to inform people.

I would not trust the new site with my credit card details, so I will not subscribe to their members section.

[traveler]

I held off judgement to see what really happened, but at this point, I believe that Igor did what he is being accused of. But even if you don't believe it, the only rational explanation is that the real VW site was hijacked, or hacked, if not Igor, then one of his employees. Its obvious that whoever did it, tried to destroy VW in the process as well as get people to join their site.

Its beyond my understanding, why people would then go to that site and sign up for anything. It should be apparent that this **** site is part of the cause for all these problems and does seem illegal, especially what the person that did it it all has done is illegal.

My thought is that the person that did all this changed the passwords to the VW site, to keep out the rightful owners and administrators. And they shut down the RC BB around the same time on Saturday. That kept out posters from talking about this, and also prevented the rightful VW admins to say anthing.

I think what has been going on behind the scenes is the the VW admins have been working hard to regain control of VW. That is evident in this new but basic main page describing what has happened. They will have a lot of work to do to get things back up to speed. This new BB is another example of how the VW admins are trying to set up a means for communication among its users again, where this new BB is temporary, but one that the bad guys can't destroy, but only perhaps post on it like us.

Finally, a comment was made about how the few forums that were still working had been shut down. I notice that today, after first seeing it working, then all those were deleted too. Those that had been viewing it, before it was taken away, know that it was the only fragment left for folks, as well as VW admin to tell us anything. I think the bad guys took that down too, as they didn't want us to see or know what was going on.

This other site may just be a money grab to get those foolish enough to sign up now to get their credit card info and raise some money. Someone pointed out that the terms and conditions are not even published, maybe they are agreeing to reoccurring credit card charges? Who knows.

I for one, did not go to the other site. It all smelled bad in the first place, but I'm surprise to hear that some folks are doing just that. Its like when we get spam that is a trap for someone to open email that directs you to another site that has a virus, how so many people will fall for bogus email that may have a subject line that is intriguing and they can't resist clicking on it. I for one try not to do that. I did decide to join this BB though, as I think its the real deal at least temporarily and a way for people to learn what is going on.

[MrSassy64]

I have asked for our pics to be removed from the other site and they have removed all but the tit pics that they absconded with from the voyerweb site. I'm really offended by the way Igor put all of the contributions on his new site with out permission. Was considering posting there, but with his violation of my copyright, can't see it happenbing now.

[grandpa]

Hello again, everyone.

Interesting struggle here. Not sure where all this falls, legally speaking, as aren't most of these type websites "Off-Shore" Operations?? Not sure who really has an jurisdiction!

I will be watching closely as they rebuild VW and as Igor moves forward with his. I will be very interested in how they decide to treat the Slammers, Backbiters, the Rude, the vicious, and other such BB posters who write nasty comments on the BB's. I don't think I am alone in these thoughts. Whichever site decides to eliminate the Assholes who ruin many Boards, and does so aggressively, may well end up with the loyality of most of the old VW subscribers. We all have different tastes, and we certainly should be able to comment/criticize/give our thoughts - but constructively - and we must be mindful of how we do it. Just a Grandpa's opinion.

Grandpa

[Canadiancrow]

hey MrSassy64... I had a feeling something was up between the cheque thing and LJ not being able to upload...
I'm just glad you guys are still here...
take care and chat soon

[majicman]

I think Mattg24k is probably very close to correct. VW may seem large but employee wise it is likely a very small company. If any of you have ever worked IT in a small company you will know that the person in charge often is not the owner but has total power to fuck the company over if he was so inclined. It appears that is exactly what Igor has done, especially with the Saturday timing to maximize his head start.

I see people bitching that they don't like this forum like VW can just load a new one off a DVD, idiots. I'm sure it will many man-hours just to make sure any backdoors Igor may have put into the old system are cleared out, if they can even reuse the old site at all.

And for those talking about the ethics... this is a fucking porn site! Nobody ever accused anybody running a porn site of having an excess of moral character or ethics.

[rugrollers]

I'm with majicman all the way to the ethics part.

But I strongly disagree with the implication that there is anything mutually exclusive about pornography and ethics. That's just the sort of attitude about sexuality as inherently depraved, dirty, etc., that plagues our culture. On the contrary, because there are moral risks in sexuality and its portrayal through pornography there is all the more need for careful ethics. Not something that VW under Igor was ever very good at, although I really never would have thought he would up and steal the whole copyrighted trove and post it on his new website without contributors' permission -- copyright was one area in which he did show some moral character (formerly).

[traveler]

Right on Majicman,
Morph and mindy here, hope you are doing well.

It appears that Igor has no moral or ethical standards. And yet people are thinking of switching to his new site. He always gave the impression he was the owner and it was his site. Like you said, it only takes a small staff of key people to run such a site, and I suspect many of the staff that do the comments and manage the various sections do it from home on a part time basis. Heck, it shouldn't take that long to do what they do in each section, there aren't that many entries each day and its not a full time job per section. We don't even know if the servers are just from another bigger hosting service or if VW has its own facilities, but in any case Igor probably had the main control over it along with passwords, so easily hijacked the site. And folks are now considering trusting this guy.

Grandpa, as to your comment, I fully agree with the issues with slammers etc, I think they have put a damper on some folks posting.

A couple of points on that issue. I remember way back, when Igor use to comment and would criticize some of the posters, with comments like "fat and ugly". He sort of sanctioned that behavior, as he use to do it himself. Maybe some place along the line, the owners told him to be a bit more sensitive or polite. Another example is when you type in the wrong password or something like that, the message returned would use an explicitive describing your intelligence. I know its suppose to be a pron site, but its still a money making business and real business people don't go that far. Then I remember Igor talking about the issue of slammers and saying that he believed in free speech etc. Well, there is free speech and then just being respectful with your opinions, versus just bashing people. It seemed that Igor was the one that was reluctant to put any controls on this.

We've all met people that have people believe that they are more than they really are, as in this case, he had us all believe he was the owner, top dog, innovator, etc, and now it appears he was only the guy they hired to run the thing.

[RickeyE]

Igor was an asshole and his "vision" to add more BS like MFF was exactly that. Glad he is gone, let's get back to real amateur.

[vwAdmin]

I think Mattg24k is probably very close to correct. VW may seem large but employee wise it is likely a very small company. If any of you have ever worked IT in a small company you will know that the person in charge often is not the owner but has total power to fuck the company over if he was so inclined. It appears that is exactly what Igor has done, especially with the Saturday timing to maximize his head start.

I see people bitching that they don't like this forum like VW can just load a new one off a DVD, idiots. I'm sure it will many man-hours just to make sure any backdoors Igor may have put into the old system are cleared out, if they can even reuse the old site at all.

And for those talking about the ethics... this is a fucking porn site! Nobody ever accused anybody running a porn site of having an excess of moral character or ethics.

Bullseye...and Thank You!

[RickeyE]

giving Igor too much credit for having brains

[Pipe]

I for one is happy that VW will be up and running soon. I can wait. Some of you have thought of the motive or series of events well. Thats great, I don't have the time. However, it does seem Igor really screwed some people. Sad part is, one of my favorites is submitting pics over there. Sad sad sad.

[majicman]

I for one is happy that VW will be up and running soon. I can wait. Some of you have thought of the motive or series of events well. Thats great, I don't have the time. However, it does seem Igor really screwed some people. Sad part is, one of my favorites is submitting pics over there. Sad sad sad.

I posted over there too before really thinking it out but after seeing the admin response here and reading what has been said I won't be posting more. I'm a perv like everyone else and will probably have some withdrawl symptoms but I can give these guys a fair shot at bringing back the VW/RC that was my daily ritual. I visit other sites but there is no other place on the web with the same sense of community they created here, bashers and all. I sincerely wish them the best of luck in getting back to that level.

Majicman

[Gempix]

And for those talking about the ethics... this is a fucking porn site! Nobody ever accused anybody running a porn site of having an excess of moral character or ethics.

Bullseye...and Thank You!

I don't think this being a porn site has 100% bearing on morals or ethics. I'll give it a dash, at best, but it's an easy cop-out to simply say that a person running a porn site is immoral/unethical. Passing judgement on someone on the account of the industry they serve is prejudice. Truth is the same can be said about anyone in any other kind of business or profession. Fact is running a porn site is as legal as being a lawyer or insurance agent (at the end of the day also arguably respectable <heh>). So what's the problem? OK, perhaps that was a rhetorical question. ;-) Obviously a gray area for people, black or white for others, let alone that we are all in limbo until Igor's criminal activities have been countered and service has been restored. VW and it's subsidiary sites got hijacked on the account of an unmanaged individual, not the type of content the individual managed. No doubt we can agree Igor ought'ta be strung up for his immoral and unethical actions -- well, his criminal actions that is -- not because someone sends him a WFI pic to post.

Remember the days when we all wished we were Igor? We just wished we were doing his job. I'm sure none of us wanted to adopt his flawed character. ;-)

[DarknLadyJedi]

And for those talking about the ethics... this is a fucking porn site! Nobody ever accused anybody running a porn site of having an excess of moral character or ethics.

Prior to this I always thought Igor had pretty good ethics. You don't have to have church morals to be an ethical person and do what is right by your company and customers (members). Stealing their intellectual property, stealing copyrighted images, crashing their systems, stealing personal information are all things that greatly surprise me. And it really surprises me that people are jumping to follow someone who did all of these things. Especially staling their pictures and personal information. I'm just glad VW/RC doesn't keep credit card information or I am sure he would have stolen that and given it to VC as well.

[bwheatx]

Small IT shop, no source code control = big problems when the "trusted" employees decide to go rouge.

If you want to write to Igor he may be here:

JWZ Corp. Tower HP, Samuel Lewis Avenue and 58th Street, Obarrio, Panama City, Panama
7th Floor, Suite 7-A, P.O. Box 83-0588, Zona 3

SO this is either a rip-off of the VW / RC business model by Igor or a ruse to avoid prosecution for something that has happened at VW? Which is it? Will we ever know? Doubt we will post either place again until we see some clear resolution.

Its been fun on the BB for us since 1998.

[majicman]

And for those talking about the ethics... this is a fucking porn site! Nobody ever accused anybody running a porn site of having an excess of moral character or ethics.

Before it goes too far I just want to say that my comment above was an over-generalization of stereotypes and meant in an off the cuff sarcastic sort of way. Don't take it too literally, I didn't mean it that way. We do expect a certain level of ethics from companies where we invest our time and money regardless of the genre.

[Gempix]

SO this is either a rip-off of the VW / RC business model by Igor or a ruse to avoid prosecution for something that has happened at VW? Which is it? Will we ever know? Doubt we will post either place again until we see some clear resolution. Its been fun on the BB for us since 1998.

I hate even mentioning this, and will be surprised if it passes moderation, but for those whose trust and loyalty in VW has been forever tarnished, there's always newbienudes (dot you-know-what). It comes at a much higher premium.

[cerebio]

SO this is either a rip-off of the VW / RC business model by Igor or a ruse to avoid prosecution for something that has happened at VW? Which is it? Will we ever know? Doubt we will post either place again until we see some clear resolution. Its been fun on the BB for us since 1998.

I hate even mentioning this, and will be surprised if it passes moderation, but for those whose trust and loyalty in VW has been forever tarnished, there's always newbienudes (dot you-know-what). It comes at a much higher premium.

And - no surprise really - it did pass moderation. Ghost, Viper and vwAdmin are likely busting their balls behind the scenes and have been open and honest to the best of their abilities as I see it. And they have clearly not censored any opinions put forward on this board. Nuff said. Give them a fair shake at this. All they ask for is a little patience, while they are doing all the hard work an most likely even are fighting legal battles behind the scenes.

Picture this: Someone you trusted has set you're house on fire and nicked your BBQ, and while you're putting out the fires and trying to rebuild the house you are fighting a legal battle from US with the dude in Panama to get your BBQ back and in the mean-time the neighbors are asking when the BBQ will be back on. :shock:

[vwAdmin]

SO this is either a rip-off of the VW / RC business model by Igor or a ruse to avoid prosecution for something that has happened at VW? Which is it? Will we ever know? Doubt we will post either place again until we see some clear resolution. Its been fun on the BB for us since 1998.

I hate even mentioning this, and will be surprised if it passes moderation, but for those whose trust and loyalty in VW has been forever tarnished, there's always newbienudes (dot you-know-what). It comes at a much higher premium.

And - no surprise really - it did pass moderation. Ghost, Viper and vwAdmin are likely busting their balls behind the scenes and have been open and honest to the best of their abilities as I see it. And they have clearly not censored any opinions put forward on this board. Nuff said. Give them a fair shake at this. All they ask for is a little patience, while they are doing all the hard work an most likely even are fighting legal battles behind the scenes.

Picture this: Someone you trusted has set you're house on fire and nicked your BBQ, and while you're putting out the fires and trying to rebuild the house you are fighting a legal battle from US with the dude in Panama to get your BBQ back and in the mean-time the neighbors are asking when the BBQ will be back on. :shock:

Again...Thank You! As much as I would like to answer each and every post and counter every skeptical theory, I would much rather devote my time in a productive direction and get the site back up and ready for the incredible community that you all have proven to be.

[rugrollers]

Breaking news from the other side. The real kicker is at the end, where they invoke "healthy and fair competition." This should all provide fodder for some more grounded theorizing, but any insights on the T&C issue would be particularly appreciated by us, who never thought we were granting permission to any sites other than VW/HC in submitting our videos.

Dear ******** users,

some of your emailed us concerns regarding our relationship with Voyeurweb. The two major points are always:

How comes that some of the Voyeurweb pictures can be found on VC?

The answer is very simple. As far as we know VW is not operated by a single company but by a network of companies and third parties. Company A is responsible for billing and cc processing, company B for parts of their pic processing, company C for publishing on some websites, company D for publishing on other websites, company E for support and so on.
The URLs are VW, RC, HC and more. Due to this fact, the T&C for uploading content on VW was never formulated precisely.
Last year it said on VW' uploading pages:
"By uploading your pictures you agree that your pictures will be shown on Voyeurweb or any other site and after that might be transfered to the archives funbags.com "
We checked their T&C almost daily since 1st April and it was never changed and always said:
"By uploading your pictures you agree that your pictures will be shown on Voyeurweb or any other of Igor's sites or other sites e.g. yoursexytits.com or yoursexwiki.com or on any site and after that might be transfered to the archives funbags.com "

We believe that VW had plans to come up with new domain names under again new companies and tried to keep it's T&C to be as open as possible in order to be able to show content on any site they might come up in the future.
The important part is "..you agree…..on any site…"!
There is not much to argue about the meaning of these terms.
Of course: If you want to have any of your pics removed from VC, e.g. the tit-section, simply email
remove@********.com
and we will take care of it as fast as we can!

And there is another reason why pics from VW/RC contributors can be found on VC now:
These contributors were part of the group who started to look for a new home since weeks and simply uploaded their contris (also past contris to VW/RC/HC) to VC during the past two weeks!

Regarding the network mentioned above. It seems from the outside like the entire network of companies and 3rd parties is in the state of implosion and more and more players from those (probably) formerly involved companies are getting in touch with us offering their help and support for our vision.

How comes that VC can accept former RC and HC members?

Honoring memberships to other places is a well known practice in real life as well as on the internet. Further details are on this page:

>>Homeclips Members and/or Redclouds Members<<

It is not ********'s intension (and never was) to go on war against the almighty VW and we will see how this whole story develops. We would really prefer a fair and healthy competition rather than a mud fight.

[WOODIE]

An interesting concept..
Igor started VW many MANY years ago. I remember logging on to VW when many of the current posters were WAY to young to post, and even way to young to use a computer. I think after looking at some of the stuff going on and the wording that has been used, the current thing we see when we log on to "VW" is in fact NOT the VW we are used to seeing, in fact, I think it is a ghost site that has been put up by someone else, that has maybe in fact taken the control. I don't remember ever seeing anything that said that IGOR was selling or trading VW away... remember the billing when you sign on and get a membership to RC, HC etc.. your card is billed to "igormania" NOT to phpBB... SO, this will probably be my one and only post here. I am not too keen on what's happened. AND having met some of the VW gang in the past, at Hedonism and some of the Vegas gatherings, IGOR included, (WHO DID OWN VW OUTRIGHT) I wonder how the owner of a site has TAKEN CONTROL ILLEGALLY of his own site. Now it is possible that I have missed something and he did in fact sell VW and the whole shebang.. to someone else, but it hasn't been that long since I renewed my RC memebership and by golly gee.... it was still billed to IGORMANIA... NOT phpBB.. so you all tell me.. as a member here since the earlyish 90's... what the F is going on.... and when did IGOR sell to phpBB... IF that ever occured. I know Igor had some hot dandy fine ass computer savvy people working for him at VW, and if the site had been pirated by anyone other than the boys at the CIA, he would have had it back under control and up and running by now.. so I think this is all a scam and someone else is doing something that isn't legal.. NOT Igor.. so... here we are...
I don't think this is at all good.. and I don't trust this blog either.. THIS IS NOT THE VW discussion board.. I"VE BEEN ON THERE A BUTT LOAD OF HOURS TOO... THIS AINT IT BOYS AND GIRLS..
Good day all...

[WOODIE]

They are refusing to post my comments.. I must be correct in my theories.

[Bluto]

I checked out ***** and it doesn't hold a candle to VW. I hope they're back up and running soon.

[DarknLadyJedi]

An interesting concept..
Igor started VW many MANY years ago. I remember logging on to VW when many of the current posters were WAY to young to post, and even way to young to use a computer. I think after looking at some of the stuff going on and the wording that has been used, the current thing we see when we log on to "VW" is in fact NOT the VW we are used to seeing, in fact, I think it is a ghost site that has been put up by someone else, that has maybe in fact taken the control.

Possible, but since a whole weekend has gone by and a workday it's doubtful that this is not the legitimate operators.

I don't remember ever seeing anything that said that IGOR was selling or trading VW away... remember the billing when you sign on and get a membership to RC, HC etc.. your card is billed to "igormania" NOT to phpBB...

phpBB is a type of forum software, it is also in use by the VC website, and thousands of other forum sites.

SO, this will probably be my one and only post here. I am not too keen on what's happened. AND having met some of the VW gang in the past, at Hedonism and some of the Vegas gatherings, IGOR included, (WHO DID OWN VW OUTRIGHT) I wonder how the owner of a site has TAKEN CONTROL ILLEGALLY of his own site.

According to Igor on VC he never actually owned the site. Although having met him also he did claim to own it, and as of last year was still claiming to be the owner.

Now it is possible that I have missed something and he did in fact sell VW and the whole shebang.. to someone else, but it hasn't been that long since I renewed my RC memebership and by golly gee.... it was still billed to IGORMANIA... NOT phpBB.. so you all tell me.. as a member here since the earlyish 90's... what the F is going on.... and when did IGOR sell to phpBB... IF that ever occured.

When/if he ever sold is unknown. As is why it was called Igormania if he wasn't ever the owner. The fact that personal data was taken from VW and given to VC is beyond question as they have the RC/HC member database. That they have and are using images from the VW sites with their own watermark is self evident.

I know Igor had some hot dandy fine ass computer savvy people working for him at VW, and if the site had been pirated by anyone other than the boys at the CIA, he would have had it back under control and up and running by now.. so I think this is all a scam and someone else is doing something that isn't legal.. NOT Igor.. so... here we are...

I agree. If this were a normal attack it would have been back up and running by now. All the more reason to believe what the current admins are saying.

I don't think this is at all good.. and I don't trust this blog either.. THIS IS NOT THE VW discussion board.. I"VE BEEN ON THERE A BUTT LOAD OF HOURS TOO... THIS AINT IT BOYS AND GIRLS..
Good day all...

I don't trust anything, but that's my nature. This is a temp BB set up using the basic phpBB system so that people can get & exchange information. The original was hacked and possibly all backups compromised from within as part of a very long term, planned attack.

[vwAdmin]

They are refusing to post my comments.. I must be correct in my theories.

We have approved *ALL* posts and will continue to do so, barring blatant spam and posts by bots.

Please take the time to read what's being posted before you pass judgement based on the time it takes for a single post to be approved.

As I have posted before, I would love to have the opportunity to address each and every post, but I feel that getting the site restored takes priority over having to repeat the same answers to questions already posted and replied to.

Thank you for your support and understanding in advance.

vwAdmin :ugeek:

[kwizmaster]

Well, assuming that mattg2k4 and all the comments that followed are correct (even if not 100%), I can't imagine that Igor cared about the people he affected. He shut down our site (let's face it, in that we are paying customers, it is ours), a took our infomation, (how much he may have taken is scary -- although I always pay for this stuff with a "gift card" purchased in the drug store, so if my card number was taken, my liability is minimal), and basically screwed each and every one of us in the process of screwing his former employers (partners, who knows?).

Jump to his new site and give him the opportunity to do that to me twice? No. I don't think so.

[kwizmaster]

I posted something for the "suggestion box" thread at 8:40 something. It isn't up. Posts made after mine are up. And now it is.

[DarknLadyJedi]

Breaking news from the other side. The real kicker is at the end, where they invoke "healthy and fair competition." This should all provide fodder for some more grounded theorizing, but any insights on the T&C issue would be particularly appreciated by us, who never thought we were granting permission to any sites other than VW/HC in submitting our videos.

Dear ******** users,

some of your emailed us concerns regarding our relationship with Voyeurweb. The two major points are always:

How comes that some of the Voyeurweb pictures can be found on VC?

The important part is "..you agree…..on any site…"!
There is not much to argue about the meaning of these terms.
Of course: If you want to have any of your pics removed from VC, e.g. the tit-section, simply email
remove@********.com
and we will take care of it as fast as we can!

How comes that VC can accept former RC and HC members?

Honoring memberships to other places is a well known practice in real life as well as on the internet.

The "remove@********.com address is coming back with the following information:
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

<remove@********.com>

(reason: 550 Unrouteable address)



----- Transcript of session follows -----

... while talking to mail.********.com.:

>>> DATA

<<< 550 Unrouteable address

550 5.1.1 <remove@********.com>... User unknown

<<< 503-All RCPT commands were rejected with this error:

<<< 503-Unrouteable address

<<< 503 Valid RCPT command must precede DATA



The email I attempted to send:
Please remove all images labeled: RobNTer, LadyJedi, DarkJedi, DarknLadyJedi, Darkside Images. These pictures and any other images copyrighted by myself are not authorized for use by ******** or any parent or subsidiary company of ********. Any use of these images shall be considered a commercial violation of copyright law under the Berne Convention, World Intellectual Property Organization, and Law 15 of 1994 (Panama). A charge of $500.00 US per day per image shall be considered the fee for use of all such images used from this date, 11 June 2012, forward.

Signed this day, 11 June 2012,



Personally I loved the "How comes that VC can accept former RC and HC members? Honoring memberships to other places is a well known practice in real life as well as on the internet. " since it fails to mention how they got the membership database from RC/HC.

[Sumfun]

Igor was an asshole and his "vision" to add more BS like MFF was exactly that. Glad he is gone, let's get back to real amateur.

Well said get rid of MFF and anything Igor set up recently as it could eb corrupted

[STCL]

DarkJedi,

Did you send your email to : remove@********.com?

I just sent a similar email requesting any and all of my pics and videos be removed; however the email bounced back.

Just curious if you were able to get your email to send?

Thanks so much!!

[sjkader]

I will say this. Dont ask them to respond to VW statement. They will ban you. I asked them to respond at around 3am CST. By 4am CST my account had been banned. This speaks heaps for me and what they stand for.

[Jackncarol]

Popcorn, anyone?

[VixenHotwife]

It is the money!
There may well have been diffences on how to run the sites, but neither those disputes or the egos involved are responsible.
Paid membership in Redclouds has been from 1.2 million to 1.4 million people every year for the last five years at least.
Take those numbers at $28 each and you have between $33 million and $35 a year.
Add the other pay elements, and one quickly get to the $45 to $50 million a year level, or more!

[Lace69]

I deleted everything over at the "other" site and am back here with all of you waiting it out.

I'm just glad my RC membership had just expired......I am concerned about my Credit card info and privacy.

Looking forward to RC getting it back-up ( no pun intended...well maybe a little)

Lace69

[Lace69]

if it helps:

Olivia@********.com is a valid email address and she responds very fast.

[rugrollers]

I will say this. Dont ask them to respond to VW statement. They will ban you. I asked them to respond at around 3am CST. By 4am CST my account had been banned. This speaks heaps for me and what they stand for.

I'm surprised. I've been raising prickly questions over there ever since Saturday and haven't been banned yet (so far as I know -- better go over and check...). It seemed like at least Igor's free-speech proclivities were being honored. Actually his freedom of information proclivities too (i.e., no information except upon Igor's whim).

[DarknLadyJedi]

DarkJedi,

Did you send your email to : remove@********.com?

I just sent a similar email requesting any and all of my pics and videos be removed; however the email bounced back.

Just curious if you were able to get your email to send?

Thanks so much!!

Never got it to send, but going to try the address that Lace posted. Thanks Lace.

As for the credit card info, VW never had the information for it to be stolen, so that is perfectly safe.

[RickeyE]

anyone should have seen what Igor really was, especially VW management. I surely could see it from 1000 miles away.

[mattg2k4]

I have to say that "Igor"'s statement on the other site is making sense to me too... in the vacuum of information when VW first went down I had to fill in the blanks and come up with the most likely theory, and a rogue employee seemed to be the best story that fit what I saw. Igor's explanation is essentially that of a botched takeover by one member of a multi-party partnership which handled the business of the VW network of sites, and he claims that he will soon be posting information on the business dealings of this network to support his case.

For now I'm still not sure so I'll continue on watching both sites for developments.

[DarknLadyJedi]

I have to say that "Igor"'s statement on the other site is making sense to me too... in the vacuum of information when VW first went down I had to fill in the blanks and come up with the most likely theory, and a rogue employee seemed to be the best story that fit what I saw. Igor's explanation is essentially that of a botched takeover by one member of a multi-party partnership which handled the business of the VW network of sites, and he claims that he will soon be posting information on the business dealings of this network to support his case.

For now I'm still not sure so I'll continue on watching both sites for developments.

According to Igor JA had had nothing to do with the VW sites since 2005, but was given the current master passwords to all the sites. On February 1, 2012 (7 years later) he suddenly changed the passwords and the entire group of VW site people just said "OK" and went on with their daily lives. The true registrar of the sites did not simply call and have the passwords changed and not give them to JA, the company that handled payments, which by Igor's statement was NOT under JA's control until May, did not simply refuse to pay until he turned the passwords back, no one did anything to prevent this hijack.

You honestly believe that? Voynetworks, the operators of VW/RC/HC, have 26 domains that I was able to dig up. I have no idea how many additional domains IDCM, the company that owns Voynetworks controls. And yet you believe that 1 person, who has had nothing to do with the company for 7 years, walked in and changed the passwords and no one thought to simply call the registrar and have this fixed?

[abbynorml]

I think that all this "Igor" stuff is a bunch of baloney. I for one am not interested in paying anymore fees on this site or the other. It's just a way to make money.