[snakeoil]

The only way to change this mess that we are in is to vote all incumbants out of office. I know this will piss those die hards on this site, but think about it, For once we will get a true picture of what the American citizens want.

[BilboBagend]

All one really needs to do is to eliminate the autocratic bully teagaggers and fix the few anti-democratic rules that have plagued both democrats and republicans. We need to thank the teagaggers for exposing how unprincipled politicians are, especially the teagaggers.

The filibuster needs to be a real filibuster

Congressional districts need to be un-gerrymandered and determined by unbiased computer program that knows only the location of the residence of each citizen, the borders of states, the location of impassable mountain ranges, rivers, and bays, the number of representatives per state, and nothing more.

Eliminate the "Haster Rule" in the House and all other anti-democratic rules and traditions.

Demand that government actually discuss laws in Congressional sessions in Congressional halls.

Stop the effort to "fix" elections by eliminating the right of selected American citizens to vote.

Establish direct popular election of the President.

Realize in law that corporations are government created and sanctioned entities, not people, and are subject to arbitrary and just legal limitations by legislatures. The people who own corporations are people and have their rights already as people. The people who manage corporations are people and have their rights already as people. The people who work in corporations are people and have their rights already as people. People have the right to make campaign donations, not entities. People have the right to make political statements, not entities. People have the right to campaign for those seeking office, not entities. People have the right to speak out on issues, not entities. Corporations and other business should be totally barred from participating in politics, the creation of bills and laws, and elections. The owners as people already have those right. The managers as people already have those rights. The employees as people already have those rights.

[snakeoil]

Bilbo...A lot of good thought to your reply. As to corporations; I couldn't agree more. A bit of history about corporations-In the earlydays, a corporation was allowed to operate only for a limited time (usually no more that ten years) and in a specific area such as a county or state. The corporation was only allowed to make one product, and if they manufactured any other product, that product was not covered by the protections of corporate law. Sometimes a corporate lost it's charter by manufacturing another product. ALL corporations lost the protections afforded corporations after a set amount of time. The idea of a corporation was to allow a company to set roots and grow without legal restaints. Knowing this makes the SCOTUS ruling on corporations even more crazy.

[BilboBagend]

They also originally had no "rights". None. They were subject to any law the government cared to put on them. They always had the option of dis-incorporation.

[johnforbes]

The notion that the Tea Party should be eliminated shows how delusional Democrats are.

The Tea Party stands for classic American values -- not overspending, not raising taxes if the govt is wasting the money it already has, more freedom, less federal intrusion.

And what do Democrats propose? More govt, higher taxes, less freedom.

Plus some weird cult of personality in the form of some Harvard-"educated" socialist who has never run a business, never done a lick of manual labor, never served in the military, and never really understood American values.

[snakeoil]

John, I have done a ton of manual labor, have run businesses, have a college degree (totally paid for by me,) I have served in the military and (I think) I understand American values. That said, it means nothing about running the country.

[johnforbes]

In terms of some technical ability to manage America's affairs, I take that point.

But Obama either never grasped, or didn't like, the real feel of America.

When Obama looks at America, he sees a country with too much capitalism to suit him, too many rich people (though Obama is struggling hard to become rich himself), etc.

Obama said he wanted to "fundamentally change" America, and he is doing that.

There are 1.9 million fewer jobs in 2008, and some of that job loss is Obama's fault for his overly socialistic approach.

There are 47.9 million on food stamps, for heaven's sake. The U-6 real unemployment rate is 14 percent, and the only way the Dept of Labor even gets that down to the headline 7 percent talked about on TV is by removing discouraged workers from the stats.

[snakeoil]

John-The "real feel of America" is not in the Constitution. This is not to say that I am an ardent supporter of Obama (I am actually barely lukewarm about Obama.) I feel that he has been effectively stopped by Congress and that we really have no idea who the man is. Much of what is blamed on any President is actually the fault of Congress. People usually forget that the President cannot spend a penny unless authorized to do so by the Congress.

While Obama is blamed for our national debt it is wise to remember that Congress authorized that debt. Below is a link to a graphic that shows who we acually owe money to, The chart will amaze you. China gets most of the blame but they are a relatively minor player in the debt game.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/10/ ... -one-graph" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

Note on the graph that we owe twice as much to the Federal Reserve as we do to China.

[BilboBagend]

"The Tea Party stands for traditional American values." Nostalgic delusions of a history that never existed ascribed to a radical reactionary group of nothing but bullies that hates the America that exists and hates Americans.

[RealJustme]

While Obama is blamed for our national debt it is wise to remember that Congress authorized that debt.

If the House gives in "again" and blesses off on Obama's future spending plans and raises the debt next year Obama will say "Hey the House authorized it, blame them not me, they control all budgets not me...now I need more money for 2015 and need the debt raised again, Congress got us into this mess so they need to give me the money"

It's time for the House to wake up and tell Obama they aren't authorizing one penny more than what they feel should be spent, they allowed Obama to get his way last year and look what it got us, they need to start doing their jobs and control spending. Obama is writing checks and telling the House to pay his bills or else, the House should turn over any future contact with Obama to Cruz.

Carlos

[Clownkicker]

"...next year Obama will say "Hey the House authorized it, blame them not me, they control all budgets not me...now I need more money for 2015..."-RealJustme

^^^^^This is how out of touch with reality RealTool is.

Obama doesn't need a nickel for 2015, though of course he would like to leave with the government funded. But if you clowns want to collapse the global economy again in 2015, it doesn't matter how bad you think it will make Obama look since he will be long gone already and the Republicans won't get a single vote for President in 2014 if you do this crap right before the election.

RealTool, you have to understand that they are doing this now because they don't dare do it next year.
Your problem is you think they are doing all this "on principle."
They are trying to collapse the economy now so that it doesn't look like it's improving in November 2014.
That's all.
It's called "politics."

[Grog]

I always love this topic wherein everyone demands the bums be thrown out. Then next election, incumbents have like a 90% retention rate.

Maybe you guys really should pass term-limit laws to protect you from your own idiocy. You're not smart enough to do it yourselves, so you need the government to do it for you.

Classic Americana that transcends party and ideology.

[Clownkicker]

oops--"Republicans won't get a single vote for Congress in 2014"

[johnforbes]

It is true that the real feel of America is not in the Constitution.

It is a love of liberty which created this country.

America was not built, or made great, by socialists or wimps.

It took a lot of manual labor to settle America, tame the frontier, and build it into the best big country in the history of mankind.

Obama went to the most expensive private school in Hawaii. He loafed away his days puffing pot and shooting hoops.

He has never done a single day of manual labor. He has never spend a second in uniform during a war, nor would he.

He just doesn't have a clue what made America great (a love of freedom, lower taxes, less federal control, a lot of capitalism).

[snakeoil]

At this time (6:50 pm) all of the networks have stated that the GOP has canceled the vote on the bill that Boner talked about this am. Apparently Jim Dimwit said that if the bill was voted on without defunding The Affordable Care Act, Boner and those that voted for the bill were dead.

Dear dumbasses...in 29 hours we default on our debts. Don't you realize that the whole world is laughing at us? Don't you realize that you are sending the message to the world that we are only a paper tiger with tissue paper teeth? Don't you think that our enemies are looking at our mess here at home and are working on plans to exploit our mess? Don't you have any compassion for the American citizens?

I am a moderate Republican but I hope that Obama creats a Constitutional crisis and pays our bills anyway. He has my support in this. Remember that Congress authorized all of those debts in the first place.

[snakeoil]

Update-(CNN)-Ratings agencies Fitch and Bank of London are already discussing downgrading our debt.

[RealJustme]

Could someone please remind the liberal press that in the history books years from now, Boehner's name will not even be mentioned? No one will know who was the speaker of the house when our first black President caused us to default on our debt; encourage massive unemployment; the list is too long for me to go into of "first times" for this loser. His 8 years will definitely go down in the books--even he won't be able to rewrite that.

Obama keeps saying it's the House's fault for the massive spending because they authorized him to spend it at the same time he's demanding more money or he's going to shut the Country down :lol: :lol: :lol:
I say the House should say we're paying the bills you ran up this one last time but here's all your getting for next year, take it or leave.

[snakeoil]

Justme-Remember, the money you are accusing Obamna of throwing away was authorized by the GOP House. (All money bills have to originate in the House.) Did you read my post about the ratings agencies? What happens when you go for a mortgage with a 620 credit score insteat of a 760? That's right you pay much more to borrow the money. We are all going to regret the shenanigans going on in Congress today.

[BilboBagend]

U.S. AAA rating status put on official warning by rating agencies.

[RealJustme]

Justme-Remember, the money you are accusing Obamna of throwing away was authorized by the GOP House

That's Cruz's point the House gave in last time, now Obama wants the House to authorize increased spending, don't you get it why the brakes have been applied?

[snakeoil]

CNNMoney... Fitch has informed the US that it is probable that it will downgrade the U S credit rating.

[johnforbes]

There won't be a default; some patch will be stuck on.

But should the US have its credit graded down? Yes.

We have a president who doesn't even really recognize that he has spent the country into oblivion. Obama added SEVEN TRILLION to debt.

As for the Congress, probably every person on this forum would like to see all or most of them voted out.

[snakeoil]

Justme-Please check some facts before you spout off the Tea Party line. Many of the things that Obama is accused of were actually passed by Bush and others were regretable but necessary (such as the General Motors bailout.) Then there's the fact that Obama put the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the budget instead of off-budget as Bush did. Obama spent $2 billion to increase the insurance on your bank accout which save taxpayers from fiscal calamity; 428 banks have failed since 2008 (the result of wild speculation in Wall Street's worthless securities.) Obama spent much less on the TARP program than he was actually authorized to spend by Congress. FactCheck.org has the full story on Obama's spending (the good, bad and ugly) http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas ... no-or-not/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Please read the entire article. It is very enlightening.

[Clownkicker]

You're wasting your time.
RealJustme doesn't read.

[BilboBagend]

Actually, the teagaggers and the Speaker have cost us almost a trillion dollars in extra expenses and lost economic growth,

[BilboBagend]

Several states paid out of state budgets to open up national parks. Not out of the kindness of their hearts, but because they were losing tax revenues and the state and local economies were suffering from the teagagger shut down.

You see, government money causes multiples in returns in real economic systems, as opposed to the teagagger delusional systems.

[snakeoil]

Bilbo-It's funny, I am a moderate Republican and I have to half-heartedly defend Obama because Justme drinks the Tea Party KoolAid and refuses to investigate the facts himself. That said, I must confess that I voted for several Democrats the past two times as I will until my party stops running the crazies for office.

[BilboBagend]

I hope the Republican Party fixes itself. Denies the intolerant religious fundamentalists. Denies the racists. Denied the survivalists. Comes back to a party of the people. A party of fiscal responsibility. A rational pragmatic party. A party dedicated to democracy. A party dedicated to human rights. Comes back to it's environmental roots. Rebukes corporatism and comes back to a party supporting free market capitalism with real free markets.

If not the Democratic Party will gain too much power and go down the same avenue that power always leads people. It will then be further co-opted by power and wealth like the current Republican Party.

We need computer derived Congressional Districts.

We need the real filibuster.

We need to eliminate the Haster Rule and it's anti-democratic mentality.

We need to elect the President by popular vote.

We need to bring more people into the voting franchise.

I would like to again be presented with Republican alternatives to the Democrats at the ballot.

I live in a Republican county and town. I still elect Republicans to office, but I now need to carefully look at their complete background. It once was easy, if they took the "Right to Life" endorsement they were eliminated. Now they hide. "Right to Life" no longer appears on our ballots. It was a guaranteed loss. "Conservative" will probably now disappear from our ballots. We have had Republican crooks. We have had Democratic crooks. Getting good information is difficult. The teagaggers had made it easy again. They will also now disappear from our political scene.

[RealJustme]

We need a budget.

[BilboBagend]

Bravo,

Now ask the very simple question as to why Republican leadership in both the House and the Senate have not allowed a budget committee to meet in a very long time.

[johnforbes]

What hasn't Obama submitted a budget serious enough to garner even a few Dem votes?

Look, the Oct 16th "solution" cures nothing. It merely kicks the can down the road, and America will still have to struggle with the mess of Obamacare.

Repubs and Dems in both houses, and Obama, went on long summer vacations and did nothing. They let this crisis ferment and did nothing.

Now, suddenly, Obama and Reid and Boehner expect to be greeted with applause for, in essence, doing nothing?

[BilboBagend]

Wow. more delusional, dishonest, false rhetoric from the little wannabe faux.

Who would have thought? Why, everyone.

[elklindo69]

What hasn't Obama submitted a budget serious enough to garner even a few Dem votes?

Look, the Oct 16th "solution" cures nothing. It merely kicks the can down the road, and America will still have to struggle with the mess of Obamacare.

Repubs and Dems in both houses, and Obama, went on long summer vacations and did nothing. They let this crisis ferment and did nothing.

Now, suddenly, Obama and Reid and Boehner expect to be greeted with applause for, in essence, doing nothing?

If the baggers didn't attempt to use a debt default as leverage in negotiations, then we wouldn't be having this discussion...

[johnforbes]

First, they are not "baggers."

It is arrogant, and unintelligent, to invent derogatory names for your fellow Americans who disagree that the federal govt should take over health care.

Secondly, Obama and Reid are egotists who feel they must have their way, so they stamp their tiny feet in rage whenever they encounter the only true diversity -- a different opinion.

[Clownkicker]

"Secondly, Obama and Reid are egotists who feel they must have their way, so they stamp their tiny feet in rage whenever they encounter the only true diversity -- a different opinion."-johnforbes

And this is different from Cruz and Boehner....how exactly, you hypocritical moron?

[snakeoil]

Well, it's all over but the shoutin' and whinin.' It only cost us $24 billion for this exercise in utility. On to the next manufactured crisis. A manufactured crisis is your only option when you are too dumb to run the country intelligently. Dare I repeat; "Clean The House...And The Senate Too."

[RealJustme]

n to the next manufactured crisis.

Never let a crisis go to waste, the Bill that was passed was stuffed with billions in pork that has nothing to do with keeping the Country running. In two months from now we'll go through the same process, in the mean time Obama is shifting to granting a few million illegals citizenship so they can vote to keep his agenda going.

[snakeoil]

Damn Justme, you are paranoid. Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep?

[RealJustme]

Damn Justme, you are paranoid. Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep?

Nope afraid something might grab me, I just stand arms length away from the bed and jump in.

[RealJustme]

in the mean time Obama is shifting to granting a few million illegals citizenship so they can vote to keep his agenda going.
RealJustme Posts: 2275Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:30 pm

I told ya!

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/17/with- ... n-rewrite/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;