[johnforbes]

Photo of Democrat Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer violating her own Covid orders at a Lansing dive bar this weekend.

Whitmer was hanging out at the Landshark in Lansing with a large group of friends, including her chief operations officer, Tricia Foster.

No masks, all close together, large group...

[Clownkicker]

So.....thoughts, johnny?

Do you ever have any?

It seems all you can ever do is regurgitate your handlers' propaganda.

[johnforbes]

My own thoughts?

Well, she has a fairly pretty face in a sort of pale Gothic novel sense.

But she is a complete moron.

[Clownkicker]

So now that we know johnforbes has no rational thoughts about this, (he's just whining, as always--it's what Republicans do) I'll give you a reality check, dimwit.

You pretend to list a slew of violations ("No masks, all close together, large group...") but those are not all violations. You made it up.

The rules were six people at a table maximum who can be close together and maskless when eating. That's what they were doing at a restaurant, you moron. Plus, they were all vaccinated. (They aren't your typical suicidal Republicans after all.)

The only violation of her policy was that some of the party (Not Whitmer) pushed some tables together. And Whitmer apologized for not stopping them.

So Whitmer violated ONE rule (not "rules" you dishonest turd) about the maximum size of the party at a restaurant. And she quickly apologized for allowing it.

I sincerely hope all the unvaccinated Trump supporters (e.g. johnforbes?) didn't tear up their hemorrhoids when they cut loose with all those bricks coming out of their asses because some vaccinated Democrats ate lunch at a restaurant. These things are going to happen frequently as we come out of the pandemic and confusion over the changing rules lead to misunderstandings.

[johnforbes]

Oh, please.

Whitmer is a complete airhead, and her only apology was made because she got caught.

[Clownkicker]

Oh, please.

johnforbes is a complete airhead, and he STILL can't manage an apology when he got caught telling partisan lies about the AZ database being deleted.

So that puts Whitmer one up on dishonestjohn.

[johnforbes]

I promise to apologize if and when I ever have to in regard to the AZ database, the same one Clown has no access to but which should be a public record of a crucial election.

[elklindo69]

Arizona GOP's election auditors backtrack on destroyed data claim

Auditors working on behalf of state Senate Republicans admitted Tuesday that data it had accused Maricopa County of deleting had been found.

[johnforbes]

So where is a link to the public records represented by that database?

Well, nobody knows, do they?

[elklindo69]

From what I remember, the Russians hacked into an election database.

Perhaps you people should root for America for once.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, if you aren't going to believe your own auditors when they tell you something, then why are you insisting that all the votes need to be audited to put people's minds at ease? They can't even put your mind at ease that they are doing their jobs.

You are admitting that you aren't going to believe any outcome of the audit that turns out to be against your preconceptions.

Just like you still refuse to accept the three recounts by Republicans in Georgia.

How much credibility do you have repeatedly insisting there was a widespread Republican conspiracy to elect Joe Biden?

Have you ever listened to yourself?

[johnforbes]

I'd love to believe the 2020 election was fair in every respect.

But Dems are hiding all the evidence, or deleting it, or censoring anybody who asks.

[Clownkicker]

But we aren't talking about what you say "Dems are hiding."

We're talking about what you believe Repubs are hiding.

We're talking about your continued insistence that there was a broad Republican conspiracy to elect Biden.

We're talking about your refusal to believe your own party. Which means you won't even believe additional audits if you don't like the outcome.

How can you have so little respect for your own party?

[johnforbes]

Full audits of the key swing states.

Some assurance that the Nov 2020 election wasn't stolen, but all Democrats do is censor and deplatform anybody who asks, which shows they are hiding?

[Clownkicker]

But we aren't talking about what you say "Dems are hiding."

We're talking about what you believe Repubs are hiding.

We're talking about your continued insistence that there was a broad Republican conspiracy to elect Biden.

[johnforbes]

A Repub conspiracy?

No doubt plenty of RINOs like Romney did prefer Biden to Trump.

But who said a conspiracy?

[Clownkicker]

You didn't say "conspiracy" per se only because you don't know what the word means.

But you have repeatedly told us that you hold AG Barr, Georgia Gov. Kemp, Georgia Sec. of State Raffensperger, Justice Kavanaugh, Justice Coney Barrett, Justice Gorsuch, Vice President Pence, and a slew of other Republicans in contempt because they willfully refused to enforce the law and thus essentially conspired to put Biden in office.

It is because you are a spineless weasel that you don't own up to your insane insistence that they all shirked their Constitutional duty and lied about who won the election for the same purpose, which you believe was to put Biden in office. That is a typical Right Wing nut job conspiracy theory.

[johnforbes]

Oh, come on, those people probably couldn't organize a three-car funeral.

Most conspiracy theory ideas fall apart on the rocks of pragmatism.

What I wanted Pence to do was consistent with the US Constitution, which nowhere states the VP's role is hollow and merely ministerial.

He could have, and should have, sent disputed electors back where they belonged for resolution, the state legislatures, and whatever happend after that would at least have been proper.

[Clownkicker]

There was no legitimate dispute about the electors, johnny, and Pence knew this.

The ones who voted for Biden were appointed by the legal authorities in their respective states.

The ones who "disputed" the Biden votes and instead 'voted' for Trump were self-appointed whack jobs.

No one needs to take self-appointed whack jobs seriously.

We certainly don't take YOU seriously.

[johnforbes]

That wasn't for Pence to decide.

The Constitution chose state legislatures presumably for their proximity to the people.

Pence set up a false issue and said he lacked the authority to award electors in dispute to Trump, but ruling on fake issues is a sign of intellectual dishonesty.

All Pence had to do was abide by the Constitution, and whatever the state legislatures did after that -- even if every elector was eventually given to Biden -- would have been correct

That was not done, and that is how elections like the debacle of 1876 end up in the history books.

No matter how many pro-Democrat professors write books taking the pro-Democrate view of the election of 2020, it will remain a disaster for the credibility of elections in America.

This is not (at least yet) a dictatorship, and so any president wants and needs the consent of the governed, and that includes voters having the feeling that their votes counted, and that the result was fairly counted.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, no matter what you believe, you are not allowed to just show up at the Capitol claiming to be an elector without credentials from your state authorities and expect to be taken seriously.

A far more appropriate response is to call up the mental health professionals in the area and have you hauled away, for your own safety and the safety of the republic.

You don't give nut jobs credibility by taking their claims seriously. That makes it appear that being a nut job is no different from being someone duly appointed by legal constitutional authorities.

And you don't increase credibility in the election process by giving every whack job with a random claim equal consideration to those who were legally appointed to their positions.

Pence DID abide by the Constitution by recognizing the votes of those duly appointed by their states while ignoring those with unsupported, fabricated claims to the title "Elector". Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the Vice President has the authority to question legitimate state credentials. He can only count the votes of the legally chosen Electors, which he did. No state had officially alerted him of any alleged Elector fraud.

The Vice President can't cripple our republic by giving credence to any disruptive clowns who show up at the capitol claiming to be Napoleon, Sigmund Freud, or an Elector.

[johnforbes]

What?

The people who showed up at the Capitol were members of the public.

The alternative electors were appointed by all of the key swing states, and so that duel could have and should have been sent by Pence under the US Constitution back to the state legislatures for resolution.

And whatever the legislatures did would have been final and constitutional.

[Clownkicker]

"The alternative electors were appointed by all of the key swing states,..."-johnflubs

But they weren't appointed by those legally empowered to appoint them.

When some self-proclaimed Napoleon and Freud shows up at my door, I try to get them to go somewhere else. I don't encourage their delusions.

That's dangerous, as we all saw on Jan. 6th.

[johnforbes]

Yes, in fact they were.

The state legislatures sent alternate electors.

Why?

Obviously to preserve their future rights if need be.

Pence knew all that, and should have let the designated body (state legislatures) resolve the dispute.

Then, whether that favored Biden or Trump (and that is unknown), it would have been done constitutionally.

But Pence bought the fake argument that he was being asked to select electors for Trump.

I agree he should not simply have done that.

Instead, he should have said there is a dispute and the Constitution tells us where to get that resolved -- the state legislatures.

[Clownkicker]

"The state legislatures sent alternate electors."johnflubs

But that's not how Electors are chosen, johnny. The legislatures never get to choose them.

The fact that Republican legislatures tried to hijack the system because they didn't like the election results does not mean that they are authorized to hijack the system.

You don't get to fabricate a dispute and then pretend you are the only ones who get to settle the fabricated dispute.

The voters already settled it.


If you had your way, we would STILL not have a president because even the AZ audit is not done and you won't accept the Georgia audit.

Not having a president for months is a bad thing for the republic, johnny.

[johnforbes]

Actually, that is exactly how.

Take the Commonwealth of PA as an example.

The governor and Sec of State and the (elected) Supreme Ct, all Democrats. The PA Sup Ct gave an extra 3 days to count the vote, but PA's mail ballot law Act 77 specified an 8pm deadline Election Day and said unambiguously that any deviation therefrom mean the election approach was -- focus on this word -- "void."

The US Constitution gives power over the date, time, and manner of elections to the state legislatures, and NOT to some governor or sec of state of state supreme ct.

The point here is that Democrats should WANT Biden to be viewed as legit, as properly elected, and Dems should fully believe the Nov 2020 election was entirely valid and thus they should WANT audits to remove all doubt.

But Facebook and Twitter and YouTube delete and censor any comment about the election, and CNN and MSNBC and ABC and NBC run in terror from ever mentioning the election mess.

[Clownkicker]

Again johnforbes pretends to disagree with me while agreeing with what I said.

No state legislature appoints Electors. And no state legislature has authority to appoint 'replacements' for duly appointed Electors.

However, it was generous of johnforbes to provide the proof that he agrees with me by showing us that the PA legislature doesn't appoint PA Electors.

Thank you, dimwit.

[johnforbes]

No, you need to go back over the process and ask what Pence was doing and why.

To preserve rights, all of the key swing states also sent slates of alternative electors.

What Pence could, and should, have done is send the disputed electors back where they belonged -- to their state legislatures for resolution.

That was the constitutionally proper solution, but Pence threw out the false concept that he was only being asked to reject certain electors for Trump, which was not his role.

Read the history of various election disputes and you'll see what I mean.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, the legal slate of Electors for a state was decided when the state elections were legally certified. And they were all legally certified, regardless of your sour grapes whining about this or that being done wrong. It is none of your business to tell another state what they did wrong. You have no legal standing in AZ.

Once the election results are certified, there is no dispute any longer as far as the Vice President is concerned.

It is not his place to question the legally certified election results of any state. You are simply making it up.

It is not the place of the Vice President to decide that this or that state is wrong in its election certification. And no legislature gets to decide to send alternate electors because it is not in their constitutional power to do so. Legislatures NEVER choose Electors.

[johnforbes]

No, you misunderstand his constitutional duty, and ignore the history of this.l

The Left now wants to say Pence's duty was merely ministerial, but the Constitution nowhere says that.

There were two slates of electors in the key states, and the legislatures made sure of that to preserve legal rights just in case the US Sup Ct issued something to reassess, or in case Pence discovered a backbone and did the proper thing by sending the disputed electors back to state legislatures for resolution.

I am NOT saying Pence should just have chosen pro-Trump electors. Pence said that was what Trump supporters wanted, but it wasn't.

What I wanted was for the US Constitution to be followed.

And in the case of the PA voting, for the PA Constitution to be followed.

Perhaps this all would have favored Trump, perhaps not.

But what Dems now have is a zero credibility election.

[Clownkicker]

"I promise to apologize if and when I ever have to in regard to the AZ database, the same one Clown has no access to but which should be a public record of a crucial election."-johnfibs This thread, May 25th 6:17 p.m.

I'm just giving johnforbes one more chance to prove he isn't a spineless sack of shit. He has yet to apologize for his false claim that the AZ database was deleted.

After many months he still hasn't apologized to us after the private Republican AZ audit showed that the AZ database was not deleted and used the intact database for their audit finding that Biden actually got more votes than previously thought.

I can't imagine what is taking you so long to man up, johnny. If there is anything at all in your scrotum, we expect to be hearing from you directly.

[johnforbes]

I do apologize for Clowntoker's failure to understand that there are more than one database in AZ.

This clear statement should satisfy Clown's concern regarding the matter, which shows that Democrats were terrified all over the land about election audits when -- if they believed senile Joe won -- they would have welcomed.

[Clownkicker]

Now we know why johnforbes does his drag show.

He has nothing between his legs to tuck into his panties.

[johnforbes]

Elkin will now apologize for his Russia hacking remark.

The whole Russia collusion hoax was a hoax, and nobody can now doubt that.

Will honest Elkin urge that the 12 Pulitzers given out for the Trump-Russia nonsense should be rescinded?