Political discussions about everything
#125467
Per the leftist Washington Post.

About half of the blacks shot were for pretty good cause, and the rest look like bad police action which should result in charges.

As to the unarmed whites shot, no analysis at all was done because it isn't like whites will stage national riots and burn down NY, Phily, DC, and LA.
#125478
"But what proof is there that this Floyd incident is even related to racism in any way?"-johnforbes

First of all, imagine that Floyd was white. Do you honestly believe that any cop would have kept his knee on a white guy's neck (on video) for almost nine minutes, more than two of which were after one of the cops said he could find no pulse?

Even if this started as a non-racial personal beef (which you yourself don't believe) don't you think that the fact Floyd was black told Chauvin that he wouldn't be prosecuted and convicted if Chauvin killed him? Even if Chauvin's actions were personal initially, Floyd's blackness STILL influenced the outcome, and that's the point. A white guy would likely have been put in the patrol car minutes earlier.

"In 2019, 10 unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites were shot by cops"-johnforbes

Thank you for providing data that reveal the error of your own thesis.

Whites make up 60% of the U.S. population. Blacks make up less than 13% of the population.
Unarmed whites were "shot" 19 times. Unarmed blacks were "shot" 10 times. (I don't know what "shot" means. Do they mean "killed by gunshot"?)

Do the math and you see that blacks make up about 25% of your sample population but make up almost 35% of the victims. And these data are consistent for decades. A lot more unarmed blacks are "shot" per capita than whites.
As far as total deaths caused by police, Black Americans are two-and-a-half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by the police. That should tell you something, johnny.

The protests are about ALL police abuse of power, all deaths of people caused by cops, not just shootings. Floyd was not shot yet he was still killed, just like many other victims that have caused outrage across the country in the past twenty years. Stop trying to reduce this larger problem to just a piece of the problem.

One further detail-- when an ambulance was finally called, (it should have been called five minutes earlier when the cop found no pulse) it was called "code 3" and not "code 2". "Code 3" means 'no rush' while "Code 2" means 'run traffic lights with lights and siren on'. (my layman's interpretation) There was no urgency to save Floyd's life at any point of the 'arrest' even after it became clear something was really wrong. That tells us even more about how statistically 'black lives don't matter' to police.
#125489
No, it wasn't.

Please get a clue, johnny. You REALLY have no grasp of your immense ignorance on this issue.

I'm being quite serious. Talk to some blacks.....any blacks walking down any street in some neighborhood not where you live.
Find out what their lives have been like "driving while black" or "running while black" or "shopping while black" or even "skipping down the street while black."

You will be incredulous at first. But then the light bulb will go on.
#125500
"There is nothing either good or bad that thinking makes it so."

There is racial injustice in college admission and employment today, and it is called affirmative action (i.e., discrimination against white males).

Proclaiming how horrible America was, Obama was elected president twice and given a Nobel for nothing.
#125503
johnny, you are hung up on some imaginary injustice against a few hundred privileged white people in college educations when we are talking about the daily life of tens of millions of people of color in America.

Criminy, no one has an inherent right to go to Yale or any other private school. Not even if you got a perfect SAT score, they don't have to let you in. (Meanwhile you conveniently ignore all the hundreds of underqualified white legacies who have kept better qualified minorities out of those same schools for decades by taking their slots.)

Now climb down from your white-privileged ivory tower and try to grasp what is going on in the rest of America.

Stop focusing on the very few instances where your kid doesn't get what you believe he is somehow owed in America and look at the real world of those shut out of opportunity by indignant privileged guys exactly like you.
#125509
johnny, dreams may be "valid" but the world doesn't care about any one person's dreams.

As a society we have to create an environment where those denied their dreams for hundreds of years can at least get a foot in the door. We are far from that world, but affirmative action is the only thing that has even put a dent in the massive injustice over centuries.

You don't like it and I don't like it, but it has to be done. HAS TO, johnny. Otherwise, these protests will just be a fond memory for us when we see how badly things turn out a decade from now.

So your kid goes to Stanford instead. I'm all weepy at the 'injustice' of it all. "But...but he had 'a dream!' of Yale." Waaaahhh...
#125512
All of you conservatives who insulted Kapernick for taking a knee need to apologize to him for peacefully protesting..."
It wasn't the peaceful part I objected to...
Unfortunately Elk...he was only doing it during the playing of our national anthem!
and I like other patriotic Americans took it as a personal insult...but then that's why he did it, right? :O
#125514
sillydaddy wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:22 pm
All of you conservatives who insulted Kapernick for taking a knee need to apologize to him for peacefully protesting..."
It wasn't the peaceful part I objected to...
Unfortunately Elk...he was only doing it during the playing of our national anthem!
and I like other patriotic Americans took it as a personal insult...but then that's why he did it, right? :O
If you are insulted by it....well then that's your fucking problem, and I didn't think it was unpatriotic at all.

When Trump had the peaceful protesters who were lawfully exercising their constitutional rights tear gassed and flash bang grenaded out of the park to get some stupid photo op at a church where he's not wanted and never goes to service....now that's unpatriotic.
#125515
I certainly agree with the concept of equal opportunity, but the problem with affirmative action is that it uses the very method it is designed to rectify.

Affirmative action/diversity gauges moral merit by skin tone -- just as the original white racism did.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

We have already had 40 years of reverse racism in the form of affirmative action, and all it has done is devalue the legitimate achievements of minorities who are just like Obama unable to reveal their SAT and LSAT scores for fear of disclosing how much racial benefit they got.

Both of the Obamas deserved equal opportunity, but society cannot have equal outcomes.
#125519
Johnnie.....

Obama graduated from Harvard magna cum laude and he was selected to be the Editor of the Harvard Law Review by his own peers. And pretty much everybody who knew him in school was impressed by him. And his accomplishments in the university obviously demonstrated that he belonged there.

At Harvard a goal of the institution is to train future leaders....and they produced one becuase we got a US Senator and a TWO TERM President of the United States.

Now if it was true that Obama could not get into university without affirmative action, then it goes without saying the fact that Obama went on to be the president it would most certainly show that affirmative action actually works as intended. Why........because affirmative action is supposed to resolve the fact that highly capable and talented people were getting shut out of opportunities.

Now if Trump and Bush didn't have rich and well connected daddies....do you really think they would have been where they are right now?
#125526
Elkin, you don't know Harvard very well. Almost everybody there gets good grades.

Obama's selection for law review was interesting. He was elected to be one of the affirmative action members of the Law Review. He was NOT selected on the basis of any article he wrote.

The material Obama did submit was -- how to put this charitably? -- not impressive.

Was there something about Obama's demeanor which tended to impress others? Heck yeah, and that is why he impressed people at Harvard and also why he got elected president. He was great at reading a prepared speech, but horrible speaking off the cuff.

Could Obama have gotten into Occidental (his first college) without affirmative action? Despite the fact that Obama spent his high school years shooting hoops and puffing pot, he probably could have because his demeanor was pretty good.

If you have ever heard Michelle or Barry speak without prepared notes, they were extremely mundane -- though nowhere near as mundane as Comey. Michelle was not easy to like, but Barry was.

Ditto with Bill Clinton, who came across well to many people whereas Hillary didn't.

Both Obamas admitted they got affirmative action, but we will never know what could have been accomplished by the poor young kid (doubtless Asian) who could have gotten into Harvard but was displaced by the Obamas.
#125528
"I certainly agree with the concept of equal opportunity, but the problem with affirmative action is that it uses the very method it is designed to rectify."-johnfoibles

The fact is johnforbes hasn't got a single suggestion to make "equal opportunity" a reality. All he has is faulty reasoning to eliminate the only thing that can accomplish it.

For hundreds of years whites have been given opportunities by denying them to blacks and johnforbes had no problem with that. Now johnforbes has his sensibilities offended that some blacks might catch up by being given opportunities that will inevitably deny them to a few whites. This is because things like top tier University enrollment is a zero sum game. There are only so many spots and when someone wins, someone else loses.

johnforbes pretends that all we have to do is give equal consideration to all FROM NOW ON and everything will be fine. Only it won't, and johnny knows it. Whites have had hundreds of years to accumulate wealth and power at the expense of (and sometimes literally on the backs of) blacks. Whites have run the race unencumbered as blacks were shackled to a 200 pound weight of Jim Crow and red lining and arbitrarily unequal interest rates and poll taxes and substandard schools and rat-infested ghetto housing and job discrimination dragging behind them. It was intentionally made impossible for them to ever be in contention. Whites refused to let them as a matter of law and institutional prejudice.

Now johnny thinks that by simply removing that crippling weight from their ankles (and thus from his conscience,) the race will be fair from now on. johnforbes is willing to finally make this magnanimous philosophical concession to blacks because he knows they are so far behind in the race for power and wealth (hundreds of years behind) that they can never actually catch up and threaten his unearned security. Whites already own all the choice real estate. Whites already control the gerrymandering of voting districts. Whites already control the justice system. Whites already control nearly all major businesses.

The sad fact is that there are only so many Senate and Representative seats and so many major company board chairmanships and so many top tier college openings in this country. If blacks are ever to occupy just a few of them then some whites will have to give up a few of what johnforbes calls whites' "equally valid dreams" of occupying those positions themselves.

This offends johnforbes. "Why shouldn't whites continue to own and run everything if they are qualified?" he asks.
How can you deny a perceived birthright to someone who's qualified?

And the answer is pretty simple-- history.

All johnforbes need do is read his history and learn from it. You can only lord it over the poor and disenfranchised for so long saying "Let them eat cake" before they get angry enough and fed up enough to lop your arrogant head off.
Historically, whenever the power and wealth discrepancies between the wealthiest people and the general population gets wide enough, people rise up violently and say "Well fuck you." And it WILL happen again and it WILL happen to us if things continue as they are.

It's a simple matter of saving your own skin, johnny. Some things will just have to be given up and you'll get nothing in return besides possibly some good will. But I fully expect they will be about as thankful to you as you have been thankful to them all these years. (If that doesn't frighten you, then you've never seen chickens come home to roost.)

We see what whites running everything has led to: the utter absurdity and destructive incompetence of Donald Trump.
He was inevitable in a system like ours where we ignored the warnings of our Founding Fathers against the accumulation of dynastic wealth and power (which is all currently held by whites.)

We need to try something else before it is too late. As Trump said to blacks about voting for him instead of a Democrat during the last presidential campaign, "What have you got to lose?"

Now every black in the country has learned EXACTLY what they've got to lose by voting for Trump; their lives, literally.
Trump has literally threatened to deploy the U.S. military on U.S. soil to literally kill them as they stand in the street. He's not just posturing. He'll actually do it.

And you assholes had the gall to call Obama "the Great Divider." No president in U.S. history has divided this country to the extent that Trump has. And that's not just me saying that. Presidential HISTORIANS (both Republican and Democrat) are saying that.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... s-history/
#125536
johnny, if you read the article you would know that the study was corrected for possible political bias of the historians.

Unlike you, I do not shoot the messenger just because I don't like the message.

Nor do I blindly embrace a messenger just because I like the message the way you do your heavily Right-biased sources.


But I did notice that you didn't disagree with the conclusions.
#125538
Again, johnforbes doesn't actually disagree with the historians' conclusions.

He knows perfectly well that Trump "The Greatest Divider" has been much more divisive than Obama ever was.

But it's funny watching johnny flail around, desperately trying to find something to say to distract from the ugly truth. It's also funny hearing him call his own news sources "polluted".

johnforbes is the master of the non-denial denial. (In other words, he's a spineless partisan weasel.)
#125540
johnforbes wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:53 pm Obama's selection for law review was interesting. He was elected to be one of the affirmative action members of the Law Review. He was NOT selected on the basis of any article he wrote.
How do you know that....what proof do you have?

No you don't have any proof....that's another pile of steaming bullshit that you made up.
#125548
Obama has discussed this in his two books.

What I wrote above is the factual truth about how law review selections were made at Harvard at that time (perhaps even so today).

There are many sources for Obama getting onto law review via affirmative action, and the best source is Harvard itself:

https://www.ihatethemedia.com/affirmati ... -president
#125551
The protests have gotten bigger..! so report the liberal media..!
But they are more peaceful with less of a police presence necessary...
and now the only thing left for the media reports are some isolated arrests
where the police had to manhandle unruly protesters...

Why the change? White people...Niggers can't do shit with the help of white people..
and with exception of a few isolated incidents, white people will keep the whole mess peaceful..! :O
#125603
@realDonaldTrump
Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?
8:34 AM · Jun 9, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


Well Silly....I really have to have to admit that I didn't have a "75 year old white guy who faked his own bloody pavement head trauma" on my Trump apeshit bananas Bingo card
#125604
Jacob Frey took a knee, and all it got him was yelled at by "protesters" even more leftist than him.

These are morons who want to defund cops, and direct that money toward Left Wing "psychologists"?

All that would do is cause more gun purchases and people would have to band together to protect themselves from criminals.
#125609
"All that would do is cause more gun purchases and people would have to band together to protect themselves from criminals."-johhnflubs

You should be congratulating them for seeing the light and arming themselves, johnny.

Isn't the NRA always insisting that they should own guns for self defense and band together to protect themselves from criminals?

It's your Right Wing dream world become reality. You should be thrilled. Instead you are criticizing.

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