[contributor]

One poor vote(which counts as 1) can drop the score of a top WIS post at he moment with 0,0025.It means that the post had generated a total of just 2000 votes.You can see that one poor vote has a big weight because of the small number of the votes.50 poor votes for example can drop the score with 0,125 Actually a post ,no matter how good is, can be thrown out of the competition with few dozen poor votes.Unfortunately there is one particular contributor in WIS section who is getting advantage of this situation for the second month in a row.I discussed this issue with Kiki last month and she said that at the end of the month all votes from proxy servers are ignored.Poor votes from non proxy locations are count as legitimate.This actually is the week point of the system.Suggest that a contributor can cast 40-50 poor votes for a certain post using friends or different Wi Fi networks.This will put him in a favorable position.Last month I suggested a simple solution-ignore the worst and best 100 votes for each post and then calculate the average score.There will be no need to use scripts,fine combs..etc I hope this rule will be applied otherwise I see no point to compete with a person who can who can cast few dozen poor votes for my post

[Elise]

It does seem that the scoring system is not improving. My score has had extreme drops over the last several days. As a longtime contributor, it's hard to see this happen. :cry:

[Nick2009]

I told about bad voting system many month ago.... But no reaction from Webmasters...

This is not normal. The voting system dead .. It allows fraudsters to manipulate the votes. I do not believe that Kiki and team is doing the right correction after ... The system needs to be strong to manipulation from the beginning without any correction (like it was on the old VW). If the site has 2.5 million visitors per day, the main rating is formed on the first day of voting. Lowering the points allowed in the range of hundredths, not tenths of points ... Now online is a mess ...

For example If Elise had 4,63 - score can jump between 4,60-4,65, but did not fall so low...

Webmasters.... Hey!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE OPEN EYES! DO SOMETHING OR VW WILL DIE (((

[AdrianaXXX]

Hello to all! Girls, I am here too with the same problem. What is *** going on??????????????????????????

TOTAL DOWNVOTING...... :evil: 12 hours back I was on the 1st place with 4,6........ but now 3th with 4,55... such a big leap is not possible in the normal during the voting .... Only if the past 12 hours, people voted "poor."

100% positive comments with 100% downvoting??? It is not normal

Strike??? What do U think girls???

[DaisyChains]

Same as what I'm seeing. I watched over the course of a few hours my score going up and down a huge range, and like you said, went from 1st to third, back to second, from 4.66 to 4.54 and up again...wtf???

[DaisyChains]

Although to be fair Adriana your movie had only been up a little while, and if you have fewer votes to count (my movie had 500,000, yours only 90,000 views) the average could easily go up and down..I dont think its very fair that there is no cut off dates for entries to let the votes stabilize before the competition closes..last minute contris can get an unfair advantage from a lower number of votes making the average

[DaisyChains]

As far as down voting goes..same thing now happening to me, my score has gone down hugely in the past few hours, I was #1 all day and now there is a great gap and your movie (Adriana shower etc) has gone right up..both by much more than normal voting would sensibly change things..its all so not fair on us girls! Cant believe that all of a sudden u or i would get loads of up votes or down votes in sucha short space of time..

[Jbe]

First off I have to admit that I don't pay a lot of attention to the voting or the scores. If I see a contri I like, I enjoy it... sometimes save some pics, vote if I feel like it...etc. The next day it starts over.

For the ladies it is a different story. Some are here for the prize money and some are here for the joy of it. To some of them the score is important while others claim it isn't. No matter what the case is, there has always been issues with the scoring. I've seen some comments from ladies and guys alike saying this didn't use to happen before the crash or back when so and so was "in charge" or a myriad of other statements.

I do not profess to be an expert on this site by any means and I'm sure there are some commenters and ladies that have been around longer than me... I started viewing about 2003 or 2004 but I remember these kinds of things going on even back then.

What I do not understand is how it is still happening. Since any person voting is now required to register, that means a valid e-mail is provided as well as other info. Is there no way to track the voting to make sure each person only votes once for a contri and multiple votes are not allowed? If each person could only vote once it seems to me that down-voting would not be occuring. Yet it seems that IS happening. Why?

There will always be people who know how to beat the system and have nothing better to do than do so. But surely those people are in a minority. There can't be that many computer genuis's out there. Or are there? And why does this issue always seem to surface at the end of the month when voting counts the most?

ALL the ladies that post deserve our gratitude and thanks. It takes a lot of courage to post pics of themselves on a public site and subject themselves to possible ridicule and abuse from immature and cowardly people that hide behind the anonymity of a keyboard. A lot of the ladies support each other and post positive comments on each others contris instead of bashing each other. That says a lot about their character... and none of them deserve to be treated like this. Should we the viewers be doing anything less than supporting them?

What is it going to take to get this solved and make voting fair?

[DaisyChains]

I really dont understand, I check the scores all the time, tbh I post in the other sections for fun because, as it is really more of a photo competition for semi-pro togs and models, I really have no chance. I post in the vid section for fun also, but of course the idea of winning a decent amount of money is a draw, the UK is in a mega recession at the moment and just getting by day to day is a struggle.
What gets me, watching the scores, is how my score can vary a lot at first, with only a few to take an average from, then settle right down (it hit 4.6 and stayed there, more or less, for over a week) then at the last minute drop dramatically to 4.5571. How is it possible that such a huge variation could happen so quickly?? And then to watch a movie that has been there for two days, rise dramatically and settle at over 4.6, putting it head and shoulders over all others, and scooping a large prize.
I dont want to seem obsessed with the money, and obviously I am doing this first and foremost for fun. I have always had self image problems and am worried about my weight and how I look, and (despite the idiots) its nice to get some flattering comments. Just when you see such a glaring disparity in the voting system, and it works so heavily against you, it seems so unfair. I know for an absolute fact I have not voted anything up or acted dishonestly, I wouldnt even know where to start, so I cant see how it can be 'algorythms' subtracting dishonest votes, so I can only see it as down-voting.
I really think there should be a cut off date for competition entries, and then a week for them to get a stable amount of votes, to be fair to everyone.
I'm sorry to be so sceptical but Adriana..are you really a real person?? Marilyn, are you real?? I want to be convinced, I 'd love to think we are all girls together in this but...... could it be that VW pay models to make them contris, which they then use as placebos to avoid paying a proportion of the winnings??? I dunno, the internet is such a strange place. Here's an idea..I'm going to post a pic of me in civvies...dressed normally going about my day to day life...can any of you girls do the same..to prove we are real??? Guess that not hard to fake either but it would help....

[DaisyChains]

Here is me...shopping!! Any other proof I'm real just ask!! xxxx Daisy

[contributor]

I explained everything in my first post but still I have something to add.Allowing only registered users to vote last month was a huge mistake because the total number of votes dropped dramatically and the score can be influenced very easily by few dozen poor votes.Actually there are contributors who can play with the scores as they like(also explained above). Here is a new suggestion-allow non registered users to vote like it was before.This way the total number of votes will increase and those poor votes will not influence the score so much.You can also combine my suggestion-allow all users to vote+exclude certain amount of worst and best votes at the end of the month.If a contributor downvotes certain post multiple times,supposedly he upvotes his own post multiple times.That`s why a certain amount of both-worst and best votes should be excluded before the final score is calculated

[DaisyChains]

Well its pretty flipping upsetting to watch your score go down 0.05 and a brand new last minute contri shoot up in the rankings and knock me off the the top spot..heck I wasnt expecting to be there anyway, and I'm obviously very flattered but getting so clearly down voted is a real blow. Please sort it Kiki..we love the site. Last month I lost loads of my score with people voting me down because the movie wouldn't play. As I say I dont take anything for granted and its very flattering to get such a great score..please don't think I'm a diva!
I have an idea for next month and hopefully we can put together a proper sexy b-movie style vid that will make you laugh, keep you watching and get you horny as hell all at the same time!

[Thinker]

Daisy, first off, you still look sexy with your clothes on. You definitely turn heads walking down the street.

Re voting: I have not been following the voting numbers like the contributors. There are lots of ways to see if someone is trying to "work the system." Each way you try has its own pros and cons. There is no perfect way to count votes. Attach money to winning, and you WILL get people who make earning that prize money their business. This has the effect of losing some of the people who post for fun but put in the extra effort (which we DO appreciate) to produce top notch photos.

So, Daisy, you have a great sense of humor. We have seen it several times. When you look in a mirror, I sincerely hope you see the person we see: beautiful, well-proportioned, funny woman with VERY RED hair and a great imagination.

[miki1]

Thinker,last month my post was downvoted from 4,54 to 4,46 in a matter of hours on May 31 st (the last day of the competition). As a result my contri dropped from second to fifth place.Kiki,promised that she would filter the votes and rearrange the rankings.My score however did not change at all after this filtering while other contributors in the same section gained approx 0,03-0,05 each after the corrections were made.This month I am experiencing a similar downvote .At this point I see no point to continue uploading.The question is not about the money,the issue here is that a contributor(s) in this section can downvote posts casting multiple poor votes.I would like to know why you are not excluding those poor votes as suggested above.It looks like a reasonable idea.

[Nick2009]

Daisy, I think you wrongly accuse girls (mean Adriana and Marylin etc).. Why are you doing this without no proof????? I know they are real and I had a chat with a few of them. If a girl is beautiful it does not mean that she is a professional ... I had a chat with Adriana and her family.. REAL GOOD PEOPLE!!! And to be honest as you - the video of Marilyn and Adriana is more likely to get the first prize...You do not have to write it and accuse people without evidence

miki1! Kiki really only promises to do all the best for the voting ... But unfortunately there is no response .. I do not believe that the administrator can manually adjust the fair rating. Perhaps it has her own preferences ... But unfortunately it was not us .... Site die from such work.

[Nick2009]

KIKI!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE FIND THAT man WHO CREATED THE VOTING SYSTEM THAT WAS A YEAR AGO .... YOUR "child's play" is no good ...

NICOLE WITH LOVE

[Nick2009]

PEOPLE! MY PERSONAL POINT FALL FOR THE LAST HOUR WITH 4,5807 to 4,5674 ...
686.879 VIEWS ... IT IS POSSIBLE ONLY IF ALL DAY MASS VOTE "poor" .. My head is overloaded

VW admins!!!! Hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllo! Where is your eyes????????????????????????????????????

[DaisyChains]

Nicole..I am new here, you dont understand what I mean, I dont accuse anyone of cheating or any wrong doing, I accuse VW of cheating us..I see the same people win over and over and wonder if they are real?? It would be so easy for VW to con us, if you read my posts you see I WANT to believe we are all girls together, but the thing you say to me are horrible..so unfair..I'm trying to get the best for us and get to the bottom of this voting thing..dont be mean to me
You are so mean to write bad things on my contri without even trying to understand what I say

[Thinker]

I hate to see the ladies so upset. I implore all of you to take a deep breath. I hope this is sorted out quickly.

Kiki, If you want to PM me, I am offering any help I can. I will give details in my response.

Oh, ladies, you can exhale now. Sorry about that. Glad I remembered before I left the forum!

[espresso12]

Dear contributors,
the problem is that all your calculations are based on wrong assumptions.

Btw, I never thought anyone would truely believe the 2.5 million daily unique visitors decoration on main page
because the number is so ridiculous out-of-space exaggerated, it could only be meant as a joke.

Let's face the facts and look to the official site analytics:

vw_uv_month.JPG (67.33 KiB) Viewed 26047 times

Currently VW has about 500.000 unique visitors A MONTH.
Please note: the numbers shown above are MONTHLY visitors.
The numbers are pretty good and correlate with the alexa rank of VW.

Ok, now we know that the starting base is much lower than stated.
Then - we need to know, how many of this unique visitors a month are really looking at a specific contribution
and how many of them are voting?
Well, I remember a calculation the former mastermind of this site talked about ten years ago in a rcbb thread (maybe FAQ remember this too, but obviously and sadly FAQ has left...).
He said, only 1 out 100 viewers is willing to do something actively (like voting, 'liking', etc.)
BUT only if there is no barrier like registering or emailing or any other verification.
Any barrier like registering will again reduce the number of activity by factor 10, that means only 1 out of 1000 left.

Basically, the steps to vote are pretty the same like the steps to comment in terms of opening a contri,
viewing until the bottom of a page, registering/login, vote/comment.

So why does anybody think that there are significantly more votings than comments?
Take a look yourself: in average there are between 50 and 100 comments per contri at the end of a month.
Let's assume there are 50% more votes than comments, still there are only 75 to 150 votes which decide the ranking.

And now all the jumpings and strange rank effects make sense, right? Yes, because you can easily influence the rankings with, let's say 5-10 votes, you just need to use different proxies and that's it...
And finally we have a good idea about the real number of viewers to a specific contri. Based on the 1 to 1000 rule you can easily calculate the number of viewers.
The truth is, an average contri has only around 50000 viewers a month, with an average of 50 comments
and let's say about 75 votes. And it all make perfect sense.

Now, the bad news is, all the number above are related to the free VW, the numbers for redclouds and homeclips are much lower, which means the effect of single downvotes are much higher.
The good news is, it all doesn't matter, because as long as you - as well known, long term contributors - start to complain and argue at the end of each month, the crew will "adjust" here and there a little bit, so that everybody will finally be happy.

[DaisyChains]

Just as a final word on it..I dont mean to offend anyone, and I dont mean to accuse anyone, I dont mean to suggest that VW are dishonest.
In the UK we are very sceptical, debate is a huge part of our culture, you just have to watch our parliament arguing like children to see how we deal with things. Also we like things to be transparent, we like honesty and we strive for fairness in every situation. If you saw the reaction to a queue jumper in a supermarket for instance, you would probably be shocked that so many would step in and reprimand the culprit!!
My comments on this forum are pure speculation, just thoughts on the subject which is close to all our hearts, being contributors and giving something quite personal to the site. I share my thoughts as I want to encourage debate, not to offend or create division.
I think these things should stay on here, on this forum and not spill over into making nasty comments on peoples contributions, this is backstage to us, that is front of house, a show for the audience, and to keep them happy we need to play nice!!
I assumed there were fewer people voting than we thought, and I think that making registration compulsory will reduce the number further. The algorythms that rearrange the votes..that are especially obvious at the end of the month are there to protect us, and as contributors we should appreciate the work that goes into them. Anyone honest should not be worried by them, although the fluctuations are obviously scary,as the prizes are generous enough to be quite important to anybody!
I am fairly sure though, that there will be people trying to manipulate the voting system, and most people would agree thats likely. A snake in our midst is obviously cause for concern, and not knowing who it may be will obviously divide people. So let us contributors who are honest stand strong and together and not let this destroy the site that we all enjoy so much..there really isnt another one out there as cool as this one..
Support VW..lets do our best, enjoy the competitions and make it the best we can
xxx Mr and Mrs Daisy xxx

[contributor]

Espresso12,there no need for graphics and complicated theories and suggestions to estimate the number of votes.The total number of votes can be calculated using the difference each single vote causes to the score.Here is an example:if a single poor vote drops the score with 0,0030,the number of votes is around 1000, if the change of the score is 0,0017 then we have 2000 votes...0,0007 means 5000 votes... etc

[VWSupport]

The reason for requiring users to register before they can vote was to add an extra layer of prevention, as there is only ONE vote allowed PER registered user who must provide a valid email address and confirm their account via email as well. Of course there are other methods that are employed that go beyond this (so you cannot simply make a ton of email addresses and accounts) - which for the sake of keeping from those who would wish to violate the system I will not discuss here. I have tried to be completely transparent in the past, yet have seen it backfire a bit regarding the voting system, so I have now learned my lesson . It is true that requiring registered votes means more fluctuations in score as there are less people voting, but it is better to have less people voting and have real scores than a ton of fraudulent votes - please note that fluctuations of 0.1 are a relatively normal thing, as we do have scores go up and down a small bit throughout the month. Additionally, with the help of our contributors and their suggestions, the programmers set up a new system for scoring votes for July that should help even further. Right now it is being run alongside the current system to see how successful it is. Please keep in mind that a lot of changes have been made to the voting structure over the past several months in response to our contributors, so please do not state that nothing is being done. We work very, very hard to ensure that we are listening to you all, and making changes to keep everything fair has been a constant for us.

Will there always be some cheating or some people trying to game the system? The answer in just about any contest is yes. It is the staff's job here to make sure we do what we can to mitigate the cheating and keep it to a bare minimum (no pun intended )

I can assure you that nobody who is a contributor is on VoyeurWeb's employee payroll. I am the person in charge of getting out checks to our great winners so I know for a fact that each contributor which wins gets a check sent to them specifically for the amount they won - there is no funny business here or else VW would not survive for long. Not to mention (and rightly so) that no contributor would be willing to take less than what they properly won, so there would be no benefit to VW for having contributors being paid by us or doing anything with scores. We pay out a certain amount each month so it doesn't matter to us who gets the money, as long as they are amateurs since this that is who and what VoyeurWeb is all about!

I understand where you are coming from though, as I did have concerns myself about some girls just being models that were paid who had no idea about VW and someone took their photo, but anyone who has won a prize (aside from WIS contributors) has sent in photos of themselves holding signs with the specific writing I requested. Therefore, I can say that they are real women who are participating amateurs, not just some paid models someone once took a picture of...however that is not to say I wouldn't LOVE to see some photos of the other sexy ladies in their everyday as well on these forums!

If you have any questions feel free to let me know, as I am always open to suggestions on how to make this place better for everyone, users, members, and contributors alike!

[DaisyChains]

Thanks Kiki. We do love the site and have been made very welcome with loads of nice comments..and the ability to instantly delete the ignorant ones is fab too.. We are already working on a new contri for next month, in a similar vein with a bit of a story and lots of naughtiness..hopefully to provide an entertaining change and a bit of light relief! 8-)
Hopefully we can be an asset to your site as we'd love to see it go from strength to strength..
xxx Mr n Mrs Daisy xxx

[Thinker]

Kiki, Thanks for all of your hard work. We know it is tough when confronting those gaming the system.

Daisy, You definitely are an ASSet to this site. Your photoshoots are TITtilating. Cannot wait to see what you and Mr. D cum up with.

[trinityxxx]

Hey everyone,

First of all I don't think going on "strike" is the answer to anything.....what we need to do is come up with a solution that will hopefully take care of the issues of concern.
As Kiki had mentioned the reason for voting registration is to try and control voting manipulation, however it seems that many people are possibly irritated by the fact they have to log in and they simply choose not to vote. My original request about the voting registration was to have all members to be prompted to "log in" as soon as they come onto the main page of VW and their log in info would be needed before having the ability to view any of the contris, and of course after being logged in they would then be able to vote as well.

Now many of us have seen our numbers fluctuate greatly this month....myself included. My contri published middle of the month and the first few days my score was around 4.62 and as the weeks progressed my score starting dropping down. By the end of the month my score had dropped from 4.62 down to 4.51 and I had over 1 million views on my contri.
Daisy Chains stated it perfectly...... the girls that post last minute have an advantage with their rank as they have less views and the average score for them will be higher naturally cause they have less views and votes.

With all this said I have an idea for a "new" voting method for VW. As of now VW currently collect votes and give an average of the score. This new idea would basically do away with " average scores" and replace the contri's ranking based on a point system. You could leave the selection the same: Poor, Fair, Good, Very Good & Superb.

Here's an example how the new process would work.
Points Table (you can determine the best points, below is a suggestion)
Poor Vote = 0
Fair = 1
Good = 2
Very Good = 3
Superb = 4

So, at the end of the month...each model would have a "number of points" they earned from the votes they received. This new voting system not only would make the scoring more fair, but it would also eliminate the "down-voting".
Also what has seemed to be a big problem and many have complained about is contributors purposely submitting at the very end of the month with the hopes to "beat the system" with little time of fluctuation in scoring.
Well this new scoring system would encourage girls to submit earlier in the month and simply earn their score instead of trying to pull a fast one. The longer your contri is up, the more votes you can accrue.
Of course the points earned will eventually taper off as the contris become older and pushed farther down the list of publishing.....but
I would suggest that VW could change how long contris are displayed in the various sections......as of now contris are displayed for nearly 30 days. With the points system I would suggest that the contris fall off the display pages say within 12-14days....so this therefore would "cap off" the points and make it fair for girls that decide to post later in the month.

Kiki and VW Crew if you would like to try this method, it may be a good idea to keep your framework and tabulation private. This will help eliminate people trying to "beat the system". It seems like a reasonable method to try. Let me know what you think!

Kisses,
Trinity

[DaisyChains]

It does seem very odd to me that the same people have won constantly for years, that there are so many very professional and polished (and very similar) looking entries, and that those are the scores that fluctuate most when the anti-cheating algorithms hit...I lived in europe for many years and have seen how clever organised crime set-ups can be...it would be nothing to them to organise a load of different accounts to vote from, a single internet cafe could yield 20 or 30 different IP addresses, an office full of people with laptops another few. and a few proxy votes thrown in on the off chance they might go unnoticed could easily make a hundred or more fraudulent votes. Now there are so many fewer voters for every contri it is even easier to work the system..I really cant see that it wouldn't happen as the prizes are very generous, and the world is in recession so the stakes are high. Lets just hope it gets sorted before most of us happy amateurs jump ship, as its so upsetting to feel cheated. I love this site and it would be a shame to see it get a bad reputation from stuff like this.

[jenn]

I think Daisy Chains is on to something. However, this massive fluctuation in scores did not really start until this past year. I submitted to RC for several years and was lucky enough to win several contests and win awards in many. Before this past year it was very unusual that a score would ever move by more than one or two 100ths of a point after the first day. That's what the current VW doesn't seem to understand, and that's why so many contributors are upset. They know something is wrong. Add to that the fact that many current award winners appear to be professional models hired by photographers. It doesn't seem a stretch to imagine that a group of models/photographers could work the system as DaisyChains suggested, perhaps even part of a criminal organization. The amount of money in awards makes it worth the effort, particularly in Russia and Eastern Europe. Some will say that it's just sour grapes to accuse others as being professional just because they are so pretty. But anyone into photography can recognize the difference of a professional studio setup versus people who do it for a hobby. In any city it's easy to hire beautiful girls to pose nude for a photoshoots. I understand this would be very hard for the administration to police these type of submissions, but I think it's important if the site has a chance of remaining a community of amateurs sharing a sexy hobby. I do appreciate Kiki's willingness to try to help this situation.

[DaisyChains]

Just to say, I hope people dont think its sour grapes on my behalf, I watched the competition until the very last moment and my contri was in first place when it finished, fingers crossed it stays that way when whatever 'adjustments' have been made. As you say, it is pretty easy to spot a studio set-up, and pretty unlikely an amateur would have one considering a set of studio flashes cost upward of £500

[contributor]

A pro photographer should be considered a person who makes his living from photography.Unfortunately the main occupation of a person who uploads here can not be determined by the quality of the pictures or the camera,lenses and flashes he uses. The value of the photo equipment and the quality of the pictures do not define a photographer as pro or amateur.I know enthusiasts for example who`s equipment is very expensive but they shoot occasionally for pleasure an they do not make any money from pictures.

[jenn]

Contributor is right- it's not the photos that make a pro. The point I was trying to make earlier is that it's clear to me that some contributors are not wives or girlfriends, but models that are possibly working for photographers. An example would be the 1st place private shots contri 'Anna' that's up now (great photos, BTW). Having photographers post their images of models is not necessarily wrong or a bad thing. I only brought it up to agree with DaisyChains that some possibly use VW as a business opportunity and therefore the voting system is vulnerable to manipulation.

[DaisyChains]

I do agree, I didnt word it very well before..there are very good amateurs with expensive gear and some hopeless pros with crap gear..its pro studios working the system that I am against...the better the photos the better for the site and for all of us, in a way its a photo competition and thats should be what it is..not a 'who's best looking' comp cause thats just a matter of taste (and I'd lose cos of my hair!! Lol!!)...

[rockclimber]

Here's an idea, Introduce a human factor into the mix. I think some of the contributors who are all into the contest aspect are right. Some people seem to win a hell of a lot. and some voting doesn't follow a normal pattern. Well, if that's their thing AND it brings in better contri AND more fun cool. BUT it should be easy enough for ADMIN to poke around a little and see if Miss July is really just a cool gal with a good camera and if so well and good. But if she isn't, then shoot her off to the side with an honorable mention, no cash? She still wins something, The contri gets more exposure and the site gets more contri to share with the VW community.

I can see the laptops firing up to argue this point, but Let's see what we can do to keep the great contributors who are expressing their justifiable frustration over being edged out repeatedly by last minute voting and the repeat winners.

We don't have a pro side and shouldn't but a lot of the weekend and wine snappers here are darn good and should be in their own category. My half formed idea would be for the repeaters to be a separate category, still get prizes but cant edge out our newcomers. We want them to keep coming back and growing into repeaters, not withdrawing in frustration.

If it were up to me, I would be sure to include in each months winners at least half or one third newbies, highlight the top three repeaters and a heck of a lot of honorable mention runner ups! The more the merrier, its just pixels anyways.....

ALSO, Keep the winners contri at least PARTIALLY accessable without a funbags membership. Use it as a teaser o to speak. The winners group gets SOME of their images left unlocked indefinitely, not all, that's the hook. Here's a peek of the last 8 contri by Miss frecles and a smile BUT if you want to see ALL her old contri, well then good Sir or Madam, buck up your dues!. ALWAYS getting the screen that says no access is boring. Leave some windows open!!

[DaisyChains]

Not flipping cool, I watched the EC contest end at 8am UK time on monday, my contri was 1st with 4.55, then Adriana with 4.52, then Redbunny, then Marilyn. I watched it finish ffs, my contri had been number 1 for the whole of sunday. Now the winners board is up (still saying not finalized but still) Adriana is on top with 4.58..
How the hell has that contri, which was published in the last two days of the competition, gained all those points when the competition was OVER!!!! That is so out of order, so upsetting. We were over the moon when it won, its probably the only chance we'll ever win a comp like this... WE WATCHED IT FINISH... not only has that comp won the competition, it has also got the prize for 'best shower movie' bumping up her prize money to $1500.
So not fair, so corrupted, the voting system sucks..whats the point in taking part if it is so obviously screwed.
We are working on a new contri, but I dont know whether it'll be this month, or even this site, as we are thoroughly disillusioned.
Sorry Adriana..I guess you are real but surely you must see that the voting system is completely unfair on us girls..to actually watch the voting closely in the last few hours, see our contribution win by a large margin, and then find out we are second place is just horrible.....NOT FAIR VW

[rockclimber]

Email Kiki directly,

That is BS I agree. There is NO WAY a last minute entry should be allowed to win a month long contest.

This is where the Admin hand should step in with a provisional decision. Yet there are a good dozen last minute queens that swoop in for the wins over and over again.

Simply don't let it happen. That's not rigging the vote either, its keeping it level and fair.

Last minute spikers should simply be admin held til the next month and let them run 30 days, THEN if they still are good enough to win the top spot, then well and good, let them.

I can predict the answer you will receive; you will be told that the true vote was lagged as it published. Doesn't matter, it sounds like BS and honestly, based on what info you have shared , it is BS.

KA, or JA or an employee can and should make the call. Or appoint a three man tie breaker panel for any winners within a certain vote spread. If you were in the lead and two others closed then the panel decides based on vote totals, the times submitted, etc. We need contributors to feel comfortable with the honesty of the site and this sort of thing brings it all into question. The last minute swoop in and win is utter BS. The APPEARANCE of CHEATING is the killer, the reality is unimportant, if the Contributors THINK its dishonest then they will base their decisions on that and VW will suffer the consequences of a lessened reputation, fewer contributors and lower traffic (Less revenue.)

[rockclimber]

Trust is everything with contests like this, I feel for ya!

[DaisyChains]

It is so upsetting, if it had finished and she had been in the lead then at least that would have seemed fair, but her contri was well and truly beaten many hours before the competition ended. I have e-mailed admin, and heard nothing yet.
Its so crap that a contri so late on could win anyway, essentially I'm sure, with the new registered voters only system there can only be relatively few votes per day, so an average contri posted so late could easily be swung into the lead by, say, twenty friends voting superb, if there are only 80 or so votes to take an average from.
Even so, if that had been the case it would have been fairer, but I watched my contri win, hands down, with a large gap between it and second place.
I am very very upset, it was such a big deal for me to win, and this has blown all my confidence in the voting system, I am making a new movie tomorrow, but just for fun, I dont know if I dare join in any more...

[DaisyChains]

Ok..now I really have no idea whats happening. I watched my contri win..now there are two contris above me..the winners list scores are swinging wildly around, with the scores varying wildly...vastly different to the closing scores...this is ridiculous, hugely unfair..thoroughly dispiriting..I pretty much give up..whats the point of contributing when the end result is so random and can change so massively even when the comp ends... not cool....

[FilthCollins]

hello everyone ,

i will agree with Daisy .. this is crazy

I can understand that some people.. will cheat on VW .. and create thousands of fake profiles.. vote down etc etc

But .. how can someone cheat on Homeclips ?

i just saw the results :
Marilyn's contri is now first with 4.79 score BUT if you click on the contri you can see the old score which is 4.69
Same applies on Elise's contri
can someone explain this ?? im really curious

i love Marilyn's videos but i think this is too obvious ... after the end of the contest ... some contri's get EXTRA points .
Ok like i said.. i can understand it on VW .. but on Homeclips too ?!?!?

[DaisyChains]

I now feel thoroughly cheated...
I have posted another ticket this morning, as I still havent heard anything from the previous one, I cant believe this site that professes to be so caring for its girls could treat us like this...here is what I sent them..please let us know if you think this is ok...it is not sour grapes on my behalf honestly, if it had been a fair competiton I would have been happy to accept whatever result...

"I have now watched the scores swing wildy around in the EC section, I appreciate there are 'algorythms' at work, but I watched my contri win on the 1st of the month, next was Adriana's shower movie, then redbunny, then marilyn. Now, inexpicably, Marilyn's 'in Myrtilla' is back at number one, followed by Adriana's 'masturbation', which is pegged as receiving the first prize...That movie was very far down the ratings, at 5th or 6th for most of the month,well below mine and redbunny's and even zeenas shower movie. How can it possibly be in second place now above mine??? How fair is it that a movie which has been so far down the ratings should rise and beat mine, which has been a very close second to Marilyn all month, by only 0.0006 points, scooping the top prize???
I have watched the other contests also and have not seen anywhere near the amount of fluctuation..surely the results we are seeing, and the unnatural, nigh on impossible rise and fall of movies on the EC section MUST be due to cheating???
This is very very disheartening,we are very upset..it seems so unfair, it has caused us an enormous amount of stress.. we had every intention of filming a new movie for you today but I really dont think we can put ourselves through this again.
Please look at the secton and try to find what has happened, it is not just unfair on us, but also on every girl in every competition to have to go through this upset, and also on every voter as it is clear their votes stand for nothing as it is fraudulent voting decides the winners and losers more than any honest competition possibly could

I beg you to deal with this matter, and even to disqualify the cheaters and ban them from this site once and for all so that the beautiful amateur girls who post here can relax and not feel horribly cheated like we feel at the moment

Thanks
Daisy and Mr Daisy"

[Veronik]

This same thing happened with my photos when voting ended - I was in first place in the two headings. Now put me on the 4th and 9th place! How can this be explained???? PURPOSE winners going on??? I just want to understand the logic of what is happening ......... Why then there are higher scores!? Apparently I can not understand it ....

[rockclimber]

Ladies, it's the Fourth of July extended weekend, honestly I doubt anyone is around to respond right now.

Kiki has a family too and other jobs as well, not to diminish what your concerned about. THAT IS A HUGE DEAL AND I AM WITH YOU 100% But give them time to read all that is here and the tickets and come up with a plan that's fair and will be accepted by the VW community as fair and equitable.

I'll say it again, TRUSTING its fair is what counts and we all see the same winners that just ain't so different from a dozen others. I really like the idea of the senior tour even though saying that to a bunch of women who want to be viewed as sexy and desirable isn't going to go down well, I think its an idea worth exploring.

Trinity's idea on registering was a good one too and I hope it stops the trolls. Now to the vote Riggers.......

[DaisyChains]

Aha..of course..just a normal weekend here! I'm sure it will get sorted...and Veronik, I love your pics, would be cool if you'd post a 'real lady' pic in my VW girls in the wild thread!! XX

[Lance2000]

DaisyChains I think your concerns are real and completely valid. Not only is there obvious issues with somehow videos being voted up in a really odd manner that does not appears to be from legitimate voting but also there are instances of videos being voted down Quickly immediately after being posted. I have watched two videos this last month go from 1st place (normal when the contributor sees their video finally posted in the contest and they vote for themselves, giving themselves a Superb rating) and then WITHIN MINUTES go to 12th place......and the video is obviously better than some of those which remain above it for the entire contest.
The fact is that if the voting is being repaired of all the attempts at manipulation by voters then you would see all the videos shift around at the end of the month. What you actually see is only a few changing spots.....and we've all seen which few.
The part I find most frustrating is this: when you have a situation in which the Dallas Cowboys choose to not call themselves professionals but then go on to compete against high school football teams and then obviously take first prize in nearly every contest month after month....at some times a year and a half in a row.....that it should be pretty obvious that they are a professional football team regardless of what they choose to call themselves.
I think the professionals should just be paid the value of the top prize to make videos for the website each month and then make the first place prize the current value of the second place prize so the REAL Amateurs can actually compete in a fair contest.
Wouldn't it be great if I could go around the country and compete against 1st graders in a weight lifting competition so that I can make easy, almost guaranteed money each month......no wonder the actual amateurs are a bit disgruntled.
And to add salt into the wound.....we see what Very much appears to be scoring manipulation that, whatever the source, appears to be creating, guaranteed results for the end of the contests. And appearances matter.
Honestly....this month was pretty much the last straw as far as I'm concerned. I have no faith whatsoever in these contests any longer. I hope that is gets resolved to the satisfaction of the actual amateurs.....its a GREAT COMMUNITY of people here; its a real shame that these hijinks have to go on and bring the entire mood down.

[Lance2000]

One way of resolving the late contributor issue is to require that all videos participating in the monthly contest must be submitted to the site no later than the 15th of the month.....of course they won't be see on the site for a few days due to the time it takes to run them through the software to size them correctly for posting but it should leave at least a full week for people to vote on the videos.

[Lance2000]

What if, rather than the videos appearing in the order from highest to lowest in current ranking, if instead they appeared in the order in which they were submitted. The current way, the top rated videos will immediately get the attention because some people come online with a limited amount of time in which to look at the videos....so the first 3 or 4 videos get watched and voted for and then the person has to leave. This means that once videos obtain the top few positions, then the lower ranking videos may seldom even get a chance. I don't know....maybe I'm not thinking about it correctly. Any thoughts?

[VWSupport]

I do read all of these posts and appreciate any and all suggestions. RC, thank you very much for your understanding and kind words. It was really nice to spend the 4th surrounded by friends and family, I do hope you were able to do the same. I also very much hope you all had a lovely holiday weekend (for those of you in the USA), and a lovely weekend in general for those who are not!

Daisy just wanted to let you know I sent you a lengthy PM, and I very much admire your and Mr. Daisy's films, they are always fun, flirty, sexy, and the bicycle one was truly one of my favorite EC!

For July you will notice there has been some changes to prevent any cheaters trying to manipulate scoring, including a few that should mitigate any last minute contris from getting an unfair advantage, while still ensuring nobody gets an unfair disadvantage.

[DaisyChains]

I'm not vain enough to think I'll ever be in first place again, so its too late for me, but thanks Kiki, hope it helps other girls in my position in the future

[Coffjr]

Kiki,

Is there a minimum numbers of votes to allow a contri or vid into a contest? Seems like if someone had say 500 to 1000 votes, there would be a reasonable average where someone with 25 votes wouldn't. Just asking.

jr

[rockclimber]

I DO hope there will be a positive outcome for our redheaded friend.

There is precedent from last summer to hold back contri that slip in under the wire. I would make an administrative decision to hold those swoop in and rig the vote people over for the next month.

I would do it arbitrarily too and at random. Thieves and dishonest people don't like that. Honest people would be happy for the extra time to compete and be up there.

And any contri experiencing heavy down voting should trigger a second administrative action and that would be to throw out every vote in the bottom two categories and recalculate. Do it at random and the riggers will be thrown off stride. I'm sure any fix will be worked around in time. Nothing surprises me any more about what lengths people will go to to turn a dishonest dollar.....

Rough Justice? Yeah but this is the way to handle it not let rules shackle you into letting an injustice go unanswered. Besides, it's good business.

Having said that, I have no opinion of any winners or last minute winners or criticisms. It just doesn't make sense and it doesn't fit a statistical test either is my hunch. I wonder if someone has a gambling wagering set up based on these contri. The prize, while a lot to the winner, just isn't large enough to warrant going to any lengths to rig a contest. Yet the facts as presented don't meet the smell test. I had a buddy over today in the office, a cop. We were discussing a similar topic and the old truth still holds, "Follow the money....follow the money...."

There, I've gone on and probably pissed off every winner who reads this, well that's about the way my week started and probably will end, so wish me luck out here in the dog house!

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