[snakeoil]

I have been a Republican for 30 years. I joined the GOP because I believe in fiscal responsibility. Today, there is little attempt by the GOP to maintain the force that drives the economy-the Middle Class. Without a strong Middle Class our entire economy will collaspe. Our forefathers designed our Constitution to ensure that there would never be an elite, landed gentry as there was in Europe. Today's GOP seems determined to constantly bolster the wealthy 2% of our citizenry and to constantly put the burden of support of the government on, what used to be, the Middle Class. Today's GOP is focused on winning elections no matter what it takes or who's ass they have to kiss. The GOP has embraced the NRA, then the Moral Majority, then the Christian Right and now the Tea Party (who, incidentaly have now idea of what they are supporting.) If child molesters start dumping tons of money into the GOP will they support child molesters? I shudder to think what would happen if the GOP had a super majority in the House and Senate and owned the Presendency.

After the New Year, I will change my political affiliation to Independent. Although I study politics now, I intend to closely follow my elected reps and to work for those that I feel represent the majority of the electorate. I intend to hold the feet of those who do not represent the majority to the fire. I intend to kick the asses of the Middle Class until they realize what is happening to the American citizenry and start to demand accountability from their elected officials.

This insane support of little to no taxes on the wealthy and the-foot-on-the-neck of the Middle Class has to stop. Without a large segment of the citizenry (the Middle Class) that can afford the products and services of business, our economy will fail. Under Eisenhower, the top tax rate was 91%. today we are shutting down our government because the GOP doesn't want to raise it from 34% (which few pay) to 39%.

Major corporations (GE=0% taxes) pay little to no taxes on their earnings. The earnings of the oil companies are at an all time high yet we subsidize them to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. In my area, a thorough-bred horse farm received several tens of thousands in farm subsidies last year.

I have run several businesses in my working life. I am now semi-retired and working as a consultant to troubled companies. I recently turned a failing construction company around in 6 months. I point this out to show that I know business and finances. I can read financial reports and know what it takes to make a business successful. In today's world the opportunities are outstanding. The fly in the ointment is Wall Street. Wall Street used to support business; now Wall Street is supported by business. The huge, stupid investments by Wall Street are sucking up the investment money that business needs on a daily basis. All large companies (even GE) borrow money on a daily bassis. Even local banks are allowed to invest depositor's money in risky ventures. Vulture investors rape companies at the cost of stockholders and then dump the pension costs on the Federal Government. Rather than beat this horse to death, it's time for the American people to wake up.

[elklindo69]

Republicans refuse to raise taxes.

Democrats refuse to cut spending.

If you were to ask me, I think they should go right off the fiscal cliff and enact all of the spending cuts and tax increases. It will hurt in the short term, but will help put the nation on firmer footing for the long run. But the politicians only care about saving face and getting re-elected...

Apparently ideology comes before country...how sad..........

[DarknLadyJedi]

Republicans refuse to raise taxes.

Democrats refuse to cut spending.

If you were to ask me, I think they should go right off the fiscal cliff and enact all of the spending cuts and tax increases. It will hurt in the short term, but will help put the nation on firmer footing for the long run. But the politicians only care about saving face and getting re-elected...

Apparently ideology comes before country...how sad..........

I agree completely

[RealJustme]

I'm all for going off of the cliff, in fact I've prepared for it, even bought extra ammo for home protection in case things get out of control. :lol: Adjusted my investments and savings so they're protected when the market crashes. Sure my taxes will go up some, no big deal, plus I'll have to lay off a couple of people just like other businesses but let's do it. If it slows spending through forced cuts, we'lll be better in the long run. The Obamabots will be hurt the most since they tend to depend on entitlements and the Government to feed them. Let's do it!

[RealJustme]

I have been a democrat for 20 years. I joined the democratic party because I believe in fiscal responsibility. Today, there is little attempt by the democrats to maintain the force that drives the economy-the Middle Class. As of today I'm a Republican.

[brandon]

How ridiculous, funny, and dated it is to still be identifying as a partisan supporter.

Get with it... there is no hope for the current crop.

More and more people every day are coming to the realization that it's time to let all go. It's the only way.

ETR
PTTP

8-)

[RealJustme]

I agree Bradon, it's time for the American people to flush or political toilet and start over. We have the worse group of leaders ever and they're starting to stink. America should be able to do better.

[snakeoil]

I'm all for cutting spending. How about starting with the free lunches that we give to business?

With the National Football League (NFL) profits topping records at $11 Billion, the highest of all sports, in stark contrast to the American economic late-2000s recession, attention is starting to look at the NFL's tax-exempt status[9] and all the Stadiums built through tax-free borrowing by the Cities, resulting in subsidies that come from the pockets of every American taxpayer.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

How much money does the U.S. government give oil, gas and coal companies?

In the United States, credible estimates of annual fossil fuel subsidies range from $10 billion to $52 billion annually, while even efforts to remove small portions of those subsidies have been defeated in Congress, as shown in the graphic below.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

A Bass Pro Shop opened in Bossier City in 2005 after city officials promised to give the retailer $38 million to pay for the construction of the 106,000-square-foot store in this Red River community.

Such deals are commonplace.

Both Bass Pro Shops and its archrival, Cabela’s, sell hunting and fishing gear in cathedral-like stores featuring taxidermied wildlife, gigantic fresh-water aquarium exhibits and elaborate outdoor reproductions within the stores. The stores are billed as job generators by both companies when they are fishing for development dollars. But the firms’ economic benefits are minimal and costs to taxpayers are great.

An exhaustive investigation conducted by the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity found that the two competing firms together have received or are promised more than $2.2 billion from American taxpayers over the past 15 years.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-a ... elas/2906/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

The Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs Credit allows investors in oil or gas exploration and development to “expense” (to deduct from their corporate or individual income tax) intangible drilling costs (IDCs). IDCs include wages, the costs of using machinery for grading and drilling and the cost of unsalvageable materials in constructing wells. These costs are “intangible” in comparison to costs for salvageable expenditures (such as pipes or casings) or costs related to acquiring property for drilling. The credit enables oil and gas producers to immediately write off as an expense these costs from income taxes rather than amortize them (spread the deductions out) over the productive life of the property.

This tax credit, intended to encourage domestic oil and gas exploration, was originally implemented through federal regulations in 1916; it became law in 1954. The Congressional Research Service has estimated that the Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs tax credit was worth $1.1 billion to the oil and gas industry in 2006.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrp ... subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

The Public Accountability Initiative in Buffalo has just released an excellent national investigation of big-box retailer Bass Pro. It finds that the privately-held company has been given more than half a billion dollars in economic development subsidies, yet in many cases, the arrival of a Bass Pro store has not resulted in the revitalization, tax revenues or job creation that the company touts. For example:

 “A Mesa, AZ development anchored by a Bass Pro has been described as a ‘ghost town’ and ‘dead’ and spurred the state to pass a ban on retail subsidies.”

 “A taxpayer-subsidized Harrisburg, PA Bass Pro is struggling to attract tenants to the mall it anchors, leading to lawsuits, stalled renovations, and increasing stigma. Though the Bass Pro was expected to hire 300-400 employees according to initial projections, it had hired only 101 employees three years after opening.”

 “Bass Pro has gone on a building spree over the past ten years that significantly undermines its claims that each new store is a major tourist destination. Bass Pro sometimes builds stores in close proximity to each other, despite having promised to maintain a store’s attraction as a retail destination that will draw visitors from hundreds of miles away.”

The study, “Fishing for Taxpayer Cash,” figures into a hot debate in Buffalo, where Bass Pro has been offered $35 million, as part of a $154 million overall project package, to build a store. The Erie Canal Harbor Development Corporation hopes the Bass Pro shop will anchor a comeback of an area in the noisy shadow of elevated Interstate 190 close to the shore of Lake Erie.

http://clawback.org/2010/06/09/bass-pro ... subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

One of the good guys.

Aug. 27--In the battle of outdoor sports retailers, Gander Mountain is in the shadows of Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops.

But the Gander Mountain chain is taking the lead in fighting government subsidies for new stores being proposed by its two competitors.

Gander Mountain has 100 stores, including one in Lower Paxton Twp. It wants state and local governments to stop providing tax credits and other types of incentives to its competitors.

"Let us all fight it out in the free-market system," said Mike Ayres, chief operating officer for Oppidan Investment Co. of Minnetonka, Minn., the developer for Gander Mountain stores. "I don't understand why a government entity would want to subsidize one for-profit company over another for-profit company." ...

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/su ... 437653_ITM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

On Wednesday, U.S. Chamber President Tom Donohue appeared on Fox Business News and defended a recent revelation by the New York Times that General Electric is using accounting gimmickry to avoid paying taxes.

GE took a beating in the press this week when it was revealed that, unlike the vast majority of working Americans, GE avoided paying any taxes last year. But the story gets worse. Through a series of tax incentives, breaks and write-offs, GE recorded a net gain on their 2009 tax liability. This is to say that not only did GE avoid paying taxes, taxpayers paid GE. In fact, during the past five years GE has "received a net tax benefit from the I.R.S. of $4.1 billion." Meanwhile, since 2002, GE has eliminated 1/5 of its American work force. Fortunately for GE, as a member of the U.S. Chamber, Donohue lobbied on their behalf.

True to form, Donohue defended GE’s brazen exploitation of the U.S. tax code, citing the tax write offs that GE’s finance business – which received a federal bailout – and subsidies for GE’s clean technology business. If that wasn’t persuasive enough, Donohue claimed that GE was entitled to the $4.1 billion taxpayer subsidized tax return simply because "they’ve paid lots of taxes over lots of time." Watch:

http://www.fixtheuschamber.org/tracking ... donohue--0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

New York State and Erie County are on the hook for $95 million.

Compare that with Kansas City, where taxpayers spent $250 million to renovate Arrowhead Stadium.

Or the $160 million spent by taxpayers to renovate Lambeau Field, home of the Green Bay Packers.

Or the $548 million Minnesota taxpayers will pay for a new stadium for the Vikings.

The new Bills lease calls for the team to pay $35 million for stadium improvements – 27 percent of the total cost. That’s a little less than the norm, as teams have picked up an average of 35 percent of the cost of stadium construction and renovations.

It’s worth noting, however, that there’s a trend around the league of teams picking up a bigger share of the tab.

The new home of the Jets and Giants was paid for entirely with private funds.
The Packers in Green Bay are planning another round of stadium improvements that will not involve public assistance.
The Vikings are covering 44 percent of the cost of their new home in Minneapolis. Ditto for what the Cowboys and their stadium in suburban Dallas.

Some further perspective: The $95 million in public funds to spruce up Ralph Wilson Stadium represents one of the largest subsidies ever granted a business in Western New York.

Yahoo’s data center in Lockport has received the largest subsidy package awarded a company locally. It is worth $268 million, mostly in sales and property tax abatements.

The richest deal before that involved $110 million in tax breaks and other incentives dangled to lure GEICO insurance to Amherst. (My note--The Gieco Bldg. cost $40 million to build.)

http://www.investigativepost.org/2012/1 ... e-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[snakeoil]

Well, we're over the cliff. There is a bill that passed the Senate, but some are saying that it might not come up for an up or down vote until Wed., Thurs. or Friday. When you guys go to work tomorrow, tell your boss that you'll get to that important stuff when you feel like it. Let me know how that turns out.

There has to be a "Clean The House****and the Senate too" movement in this country. Look at these assholes in the House and Senate; how many of these jerks would you hire for your company?

[snakeoil]

I see there's not any comments on the massive giveaways to business. Where do you think this money comes from? I'll give you a hint-from your own pocket! Should these giveaways cease there would be more money for the State and Federal governments. Many times the subsidies are equal to or greater than the cost of the business building or salaries for one year and often many more,

In Mississippi, in the 90's, an Interstate highway was moved 3 1/2 miles closer to the casino so that betters wouldn't have to travel so far on state roads. Do you have any idea how much it costs to move an Interstate? I'm curious; what is the benefit to the citizens of Mississippi? Remember-Mississippi has one the lowest educational ratings in the country. Was betting more important than education of the children?

While you were watching the pro football games this week, did you even think about the NFL being a tax-exempt entity even though their profits are over $11 billion? Did you ever think about the stadiums built with your tax dollars; how many other businesses had their business building built with tax-payer dollars? Did you think about all of the other subsidies? It is a CRIME to bring food or drink into the stadium; you have to pay the team those highly infalted prices. (Wow. you can go to jail for bringing food into the stadium.) You local police dept., already strapped for cash, has to provide crowd control and crime prevention for the team. How many streets and Interstates had to be upgraded to make it easier for the citizens to access the stadium.

With the Sandy Hook tragedy fresh in our minds, Bass Pro Shoppes and Cabelas actively seek and get massive subsidies so that they can serve the hunters-but they also sell many handguns and assault rifles. I guess there are hunters that go after bear and mosse with a handgun.

Then there are the eminent domain laws that are used to confiscate proerty for business.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... bnXJNIe0VA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Farm Bill is stalled in the Congress. Already the media is screaming the milk will be $8.00 a gallon. We must quickly pass this subsidy for the huge corporate farms. We can have babies going without milk.

The energy industry gets billions in subsidies even though profits are at record highs. Where is the cry from the citizenry for an end to this give-away?

It goes on and on but the public has closed their eyes to the abuse.

[Leroy]

Actually, the problem is that the Dairy Act, in 194X, inflated the cost of Dairy Products to keep farmers interested in producing Milk... the problem is that Congress took over controlling the price many times, overriding the 194X act, and now we're going to revert back to the 194X formula for calculations. Another example of Government meddling in private business causing problems for consumers.

They just need to remove the Dairy Act and milk will be $1.50/gallon.

[snakeoil]

From The Dairy Production Stabilization Act of 1983:

Sec. 4501. Congressional Findings and Declaration of Policy.
(a) Findings. - Congress finds that -
(1) dairy products are basic foods that are a valuable part of the human
diet;
(2) the production of dairy products plays a significant role in the Nation's
economy the milk from which dairy products are manufactured is
produced by thousands of milk producers, and dairy products are
consumed by millions of people throughout the United States;
(3) dairy products must be readily available and marketed efficiently to
ensure that the people of the United States receive adequate nourishment;
(4) the maintenance and expansion of existing markets for dairy products
are vital to the welfare of milk producers and those concerned with
marketing, using, and producing dairy products, as well as to the general
economy of the Nation; and
(5) dairy products move in interstate and foreign commerce, and dairy
products that do not move in such channels of commerce directly burden
or affect interstate commerce of dairy products.
(b) Policy. - It, therefore, is declared to be the policy of Congress that it is in the
public interest to authorize the establishment, through the exercise of the powers
provided herein, of an orderly procedure for financing (through assessments on all
milk produced in the United States for commercial use and on imported dairy
products) and carrying out a coordinated program of promotion designed to
strengthen the dairy industry's position in the marketplace and to maintain and
expand domestic and foreign markets and uses for fluid milk and dairy products.
Nothing in this subchapter may be construed to provide for the control of
production or otherwise limit the right of individual milk producers to produce
milk or the right of any person to import dairy products.

[Leroy]

From The Dairy Production Stabilization Act of 1983:

You didn't go back far enough, the Act that is causing the concern is the "Agricultural Act of 1949" that set/calculated the base price of Dairy - the act was modified, on a temporary basis, many times starting the in the 80's and then in the 2000's. It's the temporary changes, the last of which was in 09, that are expiring.

[snakeoil]

The middle-class tax payers are the only ones to receive tax relief; the "Fiscal Cliff Bill" provides over $77 billion in tax relief to industries. Granted, many of those were already on the books, but they were temporary and had to be renewed every year, For a list of the wierdest go here:

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/01 ... cliff-bill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IT JUST NEVER ENDS!

[Leroy]

The middle-class tax payers are the only ones to receive tax relief...

From what I've read, not on a blog, it appears that the Middle Class tax payer is the only one to see real tax increases and increases in costs, not the wealthy as they claimed. Sure, a small increase in capital gains, but most of the tax increases and costs will come on the backs of those making under $125,000.

[snakeoil]

Please note where this excerpt comes from.

"As Americans become more aware of the division of wealth among classes, they have turned their anger and despair into activism. There’s nothing wrong with wealth, but money that pools at one end of the population without benefiting anyone else is a sign of a suffering economy."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneywisewo ... percent/3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BilboBagend]

I've been a registered Democrat for only a couple reasons. 1) the state give me Little choice as they disenfranchise independents at the primaries, 2) Republicans IN THE LAST 30 YEARS HAVE GIVEN ME NO CHOICE. Still, I have voted frequently for Republican candidates in LOCAL elections.


Every registered voter should be able to vote in every primary in their voting district. That would be democracy.

[RealJustme]

Every registered voter should be able to vote in every primary in their voting district. That would be democracy.

Democracy would be if there were "no" parties and everyong just voted for the best person and once elected the politician voted for what was best for the people rather than their party.

[snakeoil]

I've got another "gotcha" for you.

Nineteen states have cut deals with corporations that allow the corporation to keep the state income taxes collected for anywhere from one to twenty-five years as a thankyou for relocating to that state. GE, Goldman Sachs, Proctor and Gamble and more than 2700 other companies have this arraingement with the state they have relocated to. Siemans (German,) Electrolux (Swedish,) Japanese, Canadian and European banks have similar arraingments. AMC got this deal for moving 10 miles across the state line (Kansas City, Mo. to Leawood, Kansas.) Major owners of AMC; J. P. Morgan, Apollo Management, The Carlyle group and (giant trumpet intro) Bain Capital.

GE moved to Ohio and touted that they invested $126 million to update it's operations (they received $115.3 million in tax money.) GE paid just 8 cents on the dollar.

Abu Dhabi's ruler, Sheikh Khalifa (one of the richest men in the world) got $1.4 billion this way from the state of New York. His company is called GlobalFoundries and was building a microchip plant on the Hudson just outside of Albany. New York has a law against giving such nicities but a judge sided with the state on a technicality and fined the lawyer presenting the opposing point of view $100 For requesting a review of the decision.

[snakeoil]

"People always get the type of government they deserve."

[snakeoil]

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.
Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.
Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.
Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.
Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

For 100 years after the American Revolution, legislators maintained tight controll of the corporate chartering process. Because of widespread public opposition, early legislators granted very few corporate charters, and only after debate. Citizens governed corporations by detailing operating conditions not just in charters but also in state constitutions and state laws. Incorporated businesses were prohibited from taking any action that legislators did not specifically allow.

States also limited corporate charters to a set number of years. Unless a legislature renewed an expiring charter, the corporation was dissolved and its assets were divided among shareholders. Citizen authority clauses limited capitalization, debts, land holdings, and sometimes, even profits. They required a company’s accounting books to be turned over to a legislature upon request. The power of large shareholders was limited by scaled voting, so that large and small investors had equal voting rights. Interlocking directorates were outlawed. Shareholders had the right to remove directors at will.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-a ... ations-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BilboBagend]

Taxes should be taxes. It should be that simple. There should be absolutely no spending in the tax code or by any part of the tax system at any level. Taxes should only collect money and pass it to the government for spending.

When the government spends it should be completely above board and visible spending in a spending bill.

There is a simple basic problem with government that needs to be fixed. It's called honesty and open visible above board action.

Spending in any tax code should be made absolutely illegal and punishable by life in prison.

One tax rate on all profit.

One universal individual tax expense deduction on all earned income to define earned income profit. If you expense less than the universal individual tax expense deduction, good for you for being efficient and frugal. If you spend more than the universal tax expense deduction, good for you for living at a level of wealth beyond everyone else.

[snakeoil]

US Tax code=72,000 pages. I'll bet everyone on this board has unknowingly violated the tax code at least once in their life.

[RealJustme]

I'll bet everyone on this board has unknowingly violated the tax code at least once in their life.

I'll also be that everyone on this board didn't take advantage of several "loop holes" to avoid paying some of their taxes hidden in those 72,000 tax pages. Tax experts feel 80% of Americans actually over pay their taxes but not taken advantage of the loop holes and exemptions. Even using an "expert" it would take days if not weeks for them to determine which apply to you. That's why multi millionaires like Gore have at least one CPA/tax expert working "full time" on advising them how to avoid paying more taxes than the law requires.

The IRS regulations were drafted by attorneys working for the rich for the rich, they know the average tax payer can't afford to have a full time CPA advising them.

[markjean59]

this is why we need a flat tax rate rising as the income increases

[Leroy]

this is why we need a flat tax rate rising as the income increases

No this is why we need a single tax on purchases only, excluding FOOD, a single house, education, and medical care.

There is no reason to change the tax as the income changes, and tax should not be based on income at all, it should be based on spending.

[snakeoil]

Leroy:

If you made $20,000 per year (poverty wages) you would spend 100% of it just to exist. If you made $1,000,000 a year you would only spend between 30% and 50% of your income.

For argument, say the sales tax rate was 14%. The person making $20,000 would be taxed at 14% of his total income or $2800. If the person making $1,000,000 spent 50% of his income, (spendthrift) he would pay 14% of $500,000 or $70,000. Therefore he would be taxed at 7% of his total income.

Once again the poor would be penalized for being poor.

[BilboBagend]

One tax rate on all profits.

One universal individual expense deduction for earned income to calculate earned profit. The universal individual expense deduction should be at about the 85%% of all earned incomes.

One universal tax free savings account to encourage responsible saving for ALL contingencies, education, retirement, etc, and who cares it's your own business. Net dollars deposited in any year up to a maximum (say the federal poverty level) are tax free. Any net withdrawal in any year is taxed.