[johnforbes]

Other than predicting another autumn outbreak, and urging endless lockdown while ignoring the public health debacle of 26 million jobless, what has Fauci done?

What positive suggestions do Elkin and Clown have?

They mock open air and sunlight, known for centuries to help halt pulmonary infections.

But they have ZERO positive ideas.

[Clownkicker]

A very intelligent guy posted this on another thread:

"What I suggest is TESTING. It's the one thing that will give us the data needed to ease restrictions and get people back to work. The sooner we have wide-range testing, the sooner we get out of this lockdown. It's that simple. Every epidemiological expert in the world has been telling you this for weeks but you don't care for some reason.

You should be insisting Trump puts the power of the Federal government behind making sure 30 million tests a day are done in this country instead of the million we are limited to now because of test kit supply and analysis limitations., not to mention a lack of coordination between the states for data. ONLY the Federal government can do this in a timely fashion.

But for purely partisan political reasons you are pointing everywhere but at the one person who can actually do something about the failure of nation-wide testing capability. There is no excuse for Trump not doing this AT THE VERY LEAST a month ago. By then everyone knew it was needed. By then even YOU knew it was needed."

^^^^^^ Now that guy is smart. Thanks, johnny. Good thread. (By the way, that's not "ZERO" suggestions, is it, dimwit.)

Unfortunately it makes a fool of both you AND Trump, with you both responding only to what you "wish" and would "like" to work.

Stop living in La-la Land, johnny. Get with the science already.

[johnforbes]

If you mean random testing, as was recently done in CA to ascertain wide asymptomatic spread, I agree.

So what Rx do you and Clown support?

As stated, I'd prefer the Gilead drug for profit, and my mentions of HCQ (with its efficacy still unknown but likely has some) were to help sick people. I'd make no money off HCQ.

[johnforbes]

Another question:

If 26.5 million jobs don't represent a social disaster to you and Elkin, how many would?

Is any amount of social and econ ruin enough to make you question this myopic focus on coronavirus?

[Clownkicker]

"If 26.5 million jobs don't represent a social disaster to you and Elkin, how many would?"

It isn't the absolute number of jobs that is the problem. It's how long those job losses last and the amount of economic activity that continues, regardless of the jobs. It took a decade to climb out of the Great Depression. I don't think this will take nearly that long. Why? Because both Republicans and Democrats are feeding money into the economy at the consumer level instead of just the corporate and banking level. (Well, unless McConnell has his way and the states go bankrupt.)

The first bi-partisan package of bailout money was the right thing to do. Many of those 26 million are going to get their $1200 check, plus the small business loan package that will help keep the businesses alive long enough to come out the other side, as well as continue to pay many of the furloughed employees with what amounts to grants to comtinue paying them even if not working. The next package has passed with another $484 billion to do the same thing. And then there is the state unemployment money that most have already signed up for.

So I think the initial blow to the economy will be much less than in 2008. That money largely went to wealthy people and corporations. And there was little help to those underwater with their mortgages while the help that WAS there came very slowly, often when it was already too late to really help.

The Federal government needs to prioritize testing to a meaningful level and shorten this shutdown with actual data on the virulence of this bug. But opening up before we have those data is just reckless and foolish.

[johnforbes]

Although I think reopening is imperative on an ASAP basis, I mostly agree.

There will be pent up energy, and there will be stimulus from relief bills and also steps the Fed took.

The missing piece might be payroll tax.

But every week this lockdown continues increases the risk of a new public health disaster.

Have Fauci or Birx ever done manual labor or even waited tables for money? Do they even comprehend the anxiety of some cook in Vegas, some waiter, who can't pay the rent?

Is Pelosi with her restaurant-quality freezer and her collection of gourmet ice cream really feeling the economic pinch?

[Clownkicker]

"Have Fauci or Birx ever done manual labor or even waited tables for money? Do they even comprehend the anxiety of some cook in Vegas, some waiter, who can't pay the rent?"-johnforbes

johnny, you had better HOPE they aren't making epidemiological decisions based on some sympathy for those suffering "anxiety" over their economic condition. In all epidemics, people suffer anxiety, just as they do when there is no epidemic. Sometimes it manifests as violence. Sometimes it manifests as depression. Sometimes it manifests as political instability. But the only impact any of that has on epidemiology is to the extent people do stupid things like endanger themselves and others with behaviors that further spread the virus.

It is the job of economists and politicians to solve these economic problems, not the scientific problems.

It is the job of epidemiologists to stop the pandemic, not to solve the economic and political problems.

Shut up, stop your posturing, get out of their way, and tell your politicians to do their jobs instead of just blaming everything on the scientists who didn't cause this mess and are putting their lives on the line to save you. They can't stop it or save you unless you listen to them. The politicians certainly can't save us from it.

All we can do is hope the scientists don't make any big mistakes along the way. We can be quite certain the politicians WOULD make some big mistakes if they are left to their own devices. But trying to rush the necessary science is definitely not going to help anyone.

[johnforbes]

I can understand the myopic focus on one thing -- infectious disease -- given Fauci and Birx focus on that.

But ignoring the gigantic public health issue of 26.5 million destroyed jobs isn't even medically smart.

The number of novel coronavirus deaths just approached the yearly suicide number, but the suicide figure will surely go up.

The psychiatric toll will be enormous.

Fauci and Birx should have some awareness of what a laborer, or waitress, might be thinking today as they have no money to pay rent, no money for their car payment, and no job anywhere to do.

My prediction is that this lockdown will be remembered as one of the very dumbest acts in US history.

[elklindo69]

Other than predicting another autumn outbreak, and urging endless lockdown while ignoring the public health debacle of 26 million jobless, what has Fauci done?

What positive suggestions do Elkin and Clown have?

They mock open air and sunlight, known for centuries to help halt pulmonary infections.

But they have ZERO positive ideas.

A vaccine....

[johnforbes]

Best case, that is 18 mos away.

Or never.

Where was the vaccine for HIV? None.

No vaccine for SARS either, though that simply vanished leaving no need.

[elklindo69]

A vaccine is the answer.

Not hydroxychloroquine, or drinking clorox or injecting lysol or shoving a light bulb up where the sun doesn't shine.

[johnforbes]

I agree, but that is 18 months away.

Or a vaccine may never come.

America has to start reopening in May, and every halfway sane person knows that.

Over the past two months, all constitutional rights were suspended, and Depression-level job destruction occurred.

All because of 50,000 virus deaths when we lose 2.5 million Americans every year in auto wrecks, suicides, heart attacks, etc.

America has destroyed 26 and 1/2 million jobs, and Fauci and Birx have created a new, present, enormous public health crisis because everybody knows that poverty is deadly, and it brings with it a host of medical problems such as more alcoholism, depression, drug abuse, etc.

[elklindo69]

Johnnie have you ever considered the fact that if Trump took his job more seriously and didn't botch the coronavirus response then health officials wouldn't have resorted to taking such draconian measures to stop the spread of the disease. And we wouldn't have been in this situation to begin with?

But no....you have to be some partisan numbnut who does nothing more than propagate the nonsensical bullshit spouted by the far rightwing outrage industrial complex.

Hey but wait.....Obama and those 30,000 Hillary emails..

[johnforbes]

Did Fauci botch his response when he said Feb 17 that the virus threat was "minuscule"?

What about deBlasio not even wanting to close NY schools?

What about Pelosi on Feb 24 urging people to visit Chinatown while on a walking tour there?

Trump was called racist for closing off China, and called an isolationist for closing off Italy/Europe.

Trump was also correct about HCQ, which is the only thing so far with any sort of a track record of helping, and all the leftists rooted for HCQ to fail.