[RealJustme]

During a NATO readiness test the United States was the only NATO member found to be fully combat ready.

On Tuesday, German broadcaster ARD revealed that German soldiers tried to hide the lack of arms by replacing heavy machine guns with broomsticks during the NATO exercise. Due to a lack of operational armored personnel carriers soldiers were commercially bussed or used rental vans to deploy.

To make matters worse, the broom-equipped German soldiers belong to a crucial, joint NATO task force and would be the first to be deployed in case of an attack. Opposition politicians have expressed concerns about Germany's ability to defend itself and other European allies, given that even some of the most elite forces lack basic equipment.

In an interview with local German newspaper Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung, the head of the country's green party Cem Özdemir argued that it was not only the lack of funding that posed a problem. "The financial resources are not being used efficiently," Özdemir said last September. According to him, Europe's total armies only have one tenth of the strength of the U.S. Army.

The lack of equipment does not come as a surprise to close observers of the German army. Out of 89 German fighter jets, only 38 were ready for use. The list of damaged items also included helicopters, as well as a variety of weapons.

After the lack of arms and vehicles was made public, Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen vowed to upgrade and repair the equipment. According to some soldiers and officers, the minister has so far failed to deliver on her promises.

According to the report the German NATO task force would face serious problems if it had to go to war. More than 40 percent of the task force's soldiers would have to do without required pistols, and more than 30 percent lacked general-purpose guns. Operating at night would be particularly difficult for Germany's armed task force, given a lack of 76 percent of necessary night vision equipment. It was disclosed that a large percentage of money ear marked for defense has been diverted over the years to social service programs and to deal with migrant needs.

[johnforbes]

"...was disclosed that a large percentage of money ear marked for defense has been diverted over the years to social service programs and to deal with migrant needs."

[RealJustme]

Yep, Germany has done exactly what Obama was doing, draining from the defense budget for use of social engineering of society. Trump rescued our military from becoming as hollow as Germany's.

[RealJustme]

Trump - "NATO has 29 member countries, the United States pays 70% of NATO's budget, what's wrong with that picture?"

Watch for the fireworks in Europe as they have to man up.

[elklindo69]

Really???

Trump didn't even get Mexico to pay for the wall.

As a matter of fact the Mexicans are making Trump pay billions in tariffs!

LMFAO!!!

:lol:

[RealJustme]

Elk you are misinformed as usual, Mexico is suffering big time and are paying for the wall. Trump is about to tell NATO that the United States will no longer pay 70% of NATO's budget, instead will take that money an invest in America first defenses which includes spending on our borders. Germany will have to start buying their own weapons for their troops and decide if they want to fund immigrants or provide defense for their people, their choice.

[RealJustme]

Trump has already laid it on the line during breakfast this morning "The United States spend $685.9 billion on NATO in 2017 Germany $45.4b, France $45.9b, UK $55.2b, these countries have to step it up -- not over a 10 year period, they have to step it up immediately," Trump said."We're protecting Germany, France and everybody... this has been going on for decades," Trump said. "We can't put up with it and it's inappropriate, it won't continue."

Told ya it would happen

[namngulfvet]

NICEEEEE :lol: :lol:

[johnforbes]

Having been a soldier in Italy and Germany, the whole idea of NATO was to protect Europe against Russia.

Today, as Trump noted, Germany has a pipeline in from Russia and is working with Russia.

These old alliances need to be updated.

[RealJustme]

Agree, NATO is an outdated concept and we will no longer be fighting using WWII methods which is what NATO was set up to do. The next war will be rapid deployment forces, missiles and fighter jets. We won't be rolling through Europe in columns of tanks. We should bring the vast majority of our forces back from other countries and prepare for our border and missile protections, other countries should do the same for their countries. We can no longer be their speed bumps paid for my American tax payers.

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[sillydaddy]

A spokeperson for the UK on CNN said they saw no reason
to increase military spending when there is no threat to their security...
I guess attacks on citizens with nerve agents doesn't count..! :o :lol: :lol:

[johnforbes]

The UK is, sad to say, not the same wonderful country we helped to save during WW II

[RealJustme]

A spokeperson for the UK on CNN said they saw no reason
to increase military spending when there is no threat to their security...

Translation - Why should we increase our spending from $45 Billion for protection when the United States is spending $690 Billion on NATO to provide that protection for us?

Trump needs to tell Europe we will match the $180 Billion in total European spending on NATO and will be using the $540 Billion in U.S. savings for the exclusive protection of the United States.

[Clownkicker]

"Today, as Trump noted, Germany has a pipeline in from Russia and is working with Russia."-johnflubs

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Russia being a military threat or not. johnforbes knows this but pretends it means something in the context of this thread. This is because meaningless and misleading platitudes are his stock in trade.

"...NATO is an outdated concept and we will no longer be fighting using WWII methods which is what NATO was set up to do."-RealTool

Apparently RealTool missed the tidbit in the news about Russia overrunning Crimea with WWII methods.
If NATO wasn't there, Putin would have been taking back the Baltic states and others in just the same way.

Once again RealTool is used by is handlers to perpetrate the gross lie about the U.S. paying 70% of NATO's costs.
Congratulations to RealTool for being such a reliable useful tool. Impressive.

[RealJustme]

Today, as Trump noted, Germany has a pipeline in from Russia and is working with Russia."-johnflubs

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Russia being a military threat or not.

Dude, Russia is a military treat, why can't you libtards understand that? If Russia controls Germany's fuel supply how long can they heat their homes and defend their country from an invasion? Funny how you guys never think about stuff like that, it's all unicorn farts to you guys.

[johnforbes]

Clowntoker's Russia remarks have been so bad that they are almost a crimea.

[elklindo69]

Putin is getting a good return on his investment.

[RealJustme]

Putin is getting a good return on his investment.

Yep and Trump is rocking Russia's investments with the Clinton Foundation and Germany. Russia hasn't paid Bill Clinton $500,000.00 for a speech since Trump was elected.

[Clownkicker]

johnforbes' always-impotent criticism of my salient commentary is as bloated and bulbous as his childish attempts at flower pot wire mesh topiary which usually end up looking something like a moss cow.

[namngulfvet]

As usual Elkdoofus and Clown in true American hating Socialist manner. cheer on the destruction of America

[Clownkicker]

Not once have you heard me cheer on Trump, you lying sack of shit.

[namngulfvet]

Not once have you heard me cheer on Trump, you lying sack of shit.

Thanks for admitting you hate America and Trump. The only ones who hate Trump are Socialist scum like you Asshole licker. Trump is NOT a socialist hes a true American... You, Elk and Snake shit are all traitors to MY country..

How about giving us a list of things you hate Trump for.. Hang on while I get out the popcorn

[johnforbes]

I hedge my bets by never attempting topiary. However, I have visited this and others should as well if ever in that area:

"Few more colorful figures embellish American cultural history than the late Harvey S. Ladew (1887-1976). As traveler, artist, foxhunter and creator of an extraordinary garden, Ladew filled the nearly 90 years of his life richly, creatively, and above all, with great wit.

Born into privilege in New York City, Harvey Ladew spoke French before he spoke English and was treated to boyhood drawing lessons from curators at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. In 1929, at the age of 43, foxhunting drew him to this property in rural Maryland.

Harvey Ladew purchased the 200+ acre Pleasant Valley Farm from the Scarff family in November 1929, which conveniently bordered The Elkridge- Harford Hunt Club. The old white farmhouse was in primitive condition- it had neither heat, electricity nor plumbing. Ladew said of his “new” house – “It was in shambles and the only garden consisted of a couple of old lilac bushes.

” During the 1930s Ladew added wings to the house and renovated outbuildings before beginning work on the gardens. Then, with the help of local farmers, Ladew carved 22 acres of gardens out of fields previously used for crops and livestock and set to work transforming Pleasant Valley Farm into “the most outstanding topiary garden in America,” as described by the Garden Club of America.

Late in life, Ladew determined to find a way of preserving his creation for all to enjoy. The result is Ladew Topiary Gardens, Inc., a non-profit organization whose mission is “to maintain and promote the gardens, house and facilities in keeping with the creative spirit of Harvey S. Ladew for the public benefit and for educational, scientific and cultural pursuits.”

Ladew Topiary Gardens opened to the public in 1971. Since then, the Board of Trustees developed a variety of special events to assist in maintaining this uniquely beautiful historic house and gardens. Currently Ladew Gardens hosts approximately 80 annual events which include the My Lady’s Manor Steeplechase Races, Garden Festival, the Summer Concert Series, Children’s Nature Camps, Children’s Day, Christmas Open House and spring and fall educational programs.

[divermouse]

what I reallllly can not understand is how people calming to be patriot americans do not see what tools they are for a foreign antagonistic "enemy" of democracy. I thinks they must be operatives for that country no matter what kind of flag the pretend to wear, or the cato institute that employs them. Cato a group of super rich who want it all. privatize this________ at a cost of 10-20 time the taxpayer cost. pretending to cut taxes for the people. more like un-fund it for it's destruction. so they, lets hear it, can have it all. while the people get fucked. get a clue. your $200 tax cut does not compare to theirs nor is the government all that fucked up... except for mconnell and good ol ryan self described
un-funders which really means... destroyers of OUR government and our country for a buck, theirs not yours. yup keep waving that flag cover your heads, look at hillary emails. ignore that russia just invaded your country and most likely resides at 1600 pa ave. yup defund nato russia plans depend on it. should europe pay more? clearly it could be argued. but to cause so much divide, is exactly what someone was paid to do. more like extorted. and you guys assist, making you accomplices of treason.

every damn one of you here is fairly well off. and you got well off in spite of those pseudo dreaded taxes, and regulations, so why are you not supporting your country to bring others up? it must be because you are not really americans, but foreign operatives. or just plain greedy dimwits.

there is a cost to being the greatest country. un-funding it, not protecting it, and our friends... makes us not the greatest. now ask yourself who directly gains?

[namngulfvet]

Tell us DrivelMoue. You act like its a fucking crime to support our families.. You also thinks its a fucking crime for a us to be able to retire in comfort... How much do you give up to support your neighborhood. Have you taken the doors off your house yet and put up the welcome sign? How many DACA have you taken in DrivelMouse! How much do you pay in extra taxes DrivelMouse..
At the same time you are demanding we the US support the whole fucking world on the back of your working class.. I dont know what you do for a living but maybe your company needs to step up and pay more taxes. They can cover it by reducing your pay. You libturds seem to think money grows on trees and its all free.

Why do you feel necessary to force your beliefs on the rest of the world. Im not your fucking babysitter.

[RealJustme]

there is a cost to being the greatest country. un-funding it, not protecting it, and our friends... makes us not the greatest. now ask yourself who directly gains?

You have it wrong dude, when you're the top dog, you don't have to kneel to anyone or pay for their loyalty. If they want our protection they need to pay up and prove their loyalty, not the other way around, that's socialist thinking. Trump gets that and is scaring the shit out of those used to receiving handouts in return for pretend friendship.

[elklindo69]

there is a cost to being the greatest country. un-funding it, not protecting it, and our friends... makes us not the greatest. now ask yourself who directly gains?

You have it wrong dude, when you're the top dog, you don't have to kneel to anyone or pay for their loyalty. If they want our protection they need to pay up and prove their loyalty, not the other way around, that's socialist thinking. Trump gets that and is scaring the shit out of those used to receiving handouts in return for pretend friendship.

You know it has nothing to do with geography. Trump is a stupid idiot in in Europe as well.

[RealJustme]

You know it has nothing to do with geography. Trump is a stupid idiot in in Europe as well.
elklindo69 Posts: 4651Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:49 pm

Elk you do realize we were talking about the United States being the top dog...don't you? Do you agree with that or are you like the rest of libtards who hate the United States for being top dog?

[namngulfvet]

You know it has nothing to do with geography. Trump is a stupid idiot in in Europe as well.

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[snakeoil]

Nothing like the taste of the Koolaid that the politicians dish out is it?

a. Germany is slightly smaller than Montana. The population density of Germany is comparable to Maryland.

b. France is slightly smaller than Texas. The population density of France is much lower than Germany (i/5th of France's population lives in the Paris Metropolitan area.)

c. The UK size is about 57% the size of California. The population density is comparable to Connecticut.

The population density of the USA is approx. 33.7/km2

It might be wise to remember that the EU would be a buffer for the USA in any land-based war initiated by Russia. it also might be wise to remember than the European nations are very tribal and value their sovereignty. Any proposal to consolidate them into one country would fail.

[namngulfvet]

Nothing like the taste of the Koolaid that the politicians dish out is it?

a. Germany is slightly smaller than Montana. The population density of Germany is comparable to Maryland.

b. France is slightly smaller than Texas. The population density of France is much lower than Germany (i/5th of France's population lives in the Paris Metropolitan area.)

c. The UK size is about 57% the size of California. The population density is comparable to Connecticut.

The population density of the USA is approx. 33.7/km2

It might be wise to remember that the EU would be a buffer for the USA in any land-based war initiated by Russia. it also might be wise to remember than the European nations are very tribal and value their sovereignty. Any proposal to consolidate them into one country would fail.

So your point is............
the US should do the burden of the work. Is this what your saying.. If thats the case then lets just do away with the UN and let the USA run the world as we see fit. Are you aware each member of the UN has a certain percent they are to donate to keep the UN afloat. If every small member is only doing half of what they are supposed to be doing. Then they need to step up and do their part. If the US is doing way more then its fair share then we need only to do our share and nothing more. To bad you libs cant see that.

[RealJustme]

It might be wise to remember that the EU would be a buffer for the USA in any land-based war initiated by Russia.

I've got news for you Elk, Russia can't attack the United States by land unless they build a large bridge. :shock:

[namngulfvet]

It might be wise to remember that the EU would be a buffer for the USA in any land-based war initiated by Russia.

I've got news for you Elk, Russia can't attack the United States by land unless they build a large bridge. :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[johnforbes]

I not only know how large Germany is, but have lived there for years.

And served in NATO there.

And lived there as a civilian.

WW II ended in 1945, and Russia was helping the US defeat Germany. Then came the Cold War, and US presence in NATO was mainly to deter Russia.

But America, with its big GDP, was and is shouldering most of the burden.

And sending its young kids, like me, while most kids in Germany and Italy and France did little or nothing for the defense of Europe.

And today, a former German chancellor is working WITH Russia on the pipeline, and Merkel favors that too.

Clearly, Trump is correct that we need to rethink NATO, update it, and make European members meet their financial obligations for it.