[johnforbes]

Congratulations, America. The Dems have given you this:

Preliminary analysis suggests some of the most popular plans could see double-digit premium increases.

Health care consulting firm Avalere analyzed initial rate estimates from eight states and found that premiums for "silver" plans (the most popular plans) are rising 18% next year, after a 12% increase this year.

On top of that, 41% of counties in the U.S. will have just one insurer option on the marketplace.

And while in past years subsidies to help certain people pay for their plans increased with premiums, it's all but unclear if that payment structure will continue. The House draft of the AHCA bases subsidies solely on age; there's no indication that this new structure would offset premium increases

[Clownkicker]

Finally, one of the conservatives here making the case for a single payer healthcare system.

You don't usually find them criticizing the immoral corporate for-profit medical insurance system.

Kudos, johnny.

[johnforbes]

Why, thanks for the praise, which is very deserved by yours truly.

However, pure socialism would, if it removed the profit motive, also remove the incentive to make medical progress.

A relative of mine runs a biomed research company and he says this all the time.

He has B.S., M.S., some other engineering degree, and a Ph.D. all from an Ivy League school I'd better not name because you could find out quickly who he is.

[elklindo69]

Donnie was for a single payer system....until he was against it, among other things.

[johnforbes]

In a world of limitless money, isn't everybody for single payer?

Like most others, I had to figure out how to pay for college, and it would have been easier just to have somebody give me the money.

The problem is that, as Bernie admitted, socialized medicine is unaffordable.

Even Obama's taste of it was unaffordable.

[Clownkicker]

johhny, the only medical care less expensive than that in the U.S. provided with corporate insurance is medical care anywhere else in the world.

Single payer systems in the rest of the developed world provide better outcomes than ours, and at half the cost of ours. And there is no medical care more expensive than primary care provided by hospital emergency rooms, which is your delusional 'solution' to the problem of costs.
Pretending it's the cost that makes single payer untenable is a lie, unless you mean that only those who can afford insurance should receive affordable medical care. (As if private medical insurance has ever been "affordable" to average Americans in the past 30 years.)

Even Cuba does better than us at providing basic care with better outcomes. People from the rest of the world actually travel there just to get medical care.

[johnforbes]

If people want to get medical care in Cuba or Thailand, that's fine with me.

I'll stick to med school grads from the U.S., or Switzerland, or Germany, that sort of location.

Again, in a world with limitless money, everybody would favor free health care and free education.

Heck, throw in a free Porsche too as long as we are dreaming of free things.

But even Bernie Sanders has admitted that full socialized medicine would cost too much for a giant country like this with open borders.

[Clownkicker]

"I'll stick to med school grads from the U.S., or Switzerland, or Germany, that sort of location."-johnflops

You mean like the British and Germans and Swedes do? You know, all those countries with single-payer medical systems? :lol:
Thanks, once again you made my case for me, dummy.

You are simply insisting on avoiding the point that saying "healthcare-for-all costs too much" is just your way of saying only wealthy people should receive healthcare. And no, emergency room primary health care is not a feasible or cost-effective solution to the healthcare problem.

As we saw with the Republican 'repeal and replace' solutions to healthcare, the only solution to the health care problem you offer is to leave tens of millions without health insurance, and, inevitably, without health care. That's the conservative 'solution' to our problems: "Fuck 'em!"


"Again, in a world with limitless money, everybody would favor free health care and free education."-johnflubs

But we DO have free education, dimwit, and look what it did for America. We wouldn't be America if not for socialized education for all. We couldn't function as a democracy if we didn't, let alone as a capitalist economic system. The fact is, we literally can't afford NOT to have free education.
And I would go so far as to suggest that in the 21st century we can no longer afford not to have free college educations as well. (Look what the G.I. bill did for America after WWII)

The leap you need to make is to grasp that we can no longer afford not to have universal health care either. It will be far cheaper than the world you are proposing.


"Heck, throw in a free Porsche too as long as we are dreaming of free things."-dishonestjohn

johnny, gross stupidity is not an argument that supports your position.
Believe it or not, gross stupidity doesn't actually make you look clever. It only makes you look like a conservative.

[johnforbes]

No, everybody does get health care.

Bums and illegals get free health care -- free to them, and responsible people pick up the tab via health insurance costs.

What I'm saying is that, unlike young socialists, I live in the real world where things are not free and somebody has to pay for them.

For example, you are a racist if you don't give me something free this afternoon.

The morons kneeling in the NFL have no concept of economics, or of the history of America, or anything.

[Clownkicker]

No, everybody doesn't get health care, johnny. Unlike you, millions get only emergency health care. By then it is often too late.

And I just told you what you and your brother already know, that emergency room primary care is far more expensive than regular health care.

And just a reminder, throwing millions of people off health insurance does not improve, or even preserve, their health care. It harms their health care. Even a conservative should see the obvious truth in that.

So, no response to your foot-in-mouth comment about German and Swedish doctors? :lol:

[Intrepid]

I wonder if the AssClown Loser Marxist Tool ever gets bored being the world's leading authority on every goddam thing.

[namngulfvet]

johhny, the only medical care less expensive than that in the U.S. provided with corporate insurance is medical care anywhere else in the world.

Single payer systems in the rest of the developed world provide better outcomes than ours, and at half the cost of ours. And there is no medical care more expensive than primary care provided by hospital emergency rooms, which is your delusional 'solution' to the problem of costs.
Pretending it's the cost that makes single payer untenable is a lie, unless you mean that only those who can afford insurance should receive affordable medical care. (As if private medical insurance has ever been "affordable" to average Americans in the past 30 years.)

Even Cuba does better than us at providing basic care with better outcomes. People from the rest of the world actually travel there just to get medical care.

LYING SACK OF LIBERAL SHIT

[Dogzilla]

No.....That would be YOU who is the lying sack of shit. And dumb as a fucking grapefruit to boot!

[Intrepid]

Then move to Cuba AssClown Loser Marxist Tool.
They will be happy to have another comrade.

[RealJustme]

How many Americans go to Canada for medial care? ZERO, thousands of Canadians who can afford it, swarm into the United States every year to get needed care.

[Clownkicker]

That's just not true, Tool. You're making it up, as always.
Many Americans go to Canada for medical care because they can't afford it here and they know they will get it for 30-60% less in Canada.

Meanwhile---

"Canadians who travel to the USA for medical purposes only are a small number. In 2014 it was considered to be about 52,000 people or about 0.15% of the population. Mostly they are going for non-critical or non-life threatening issues where there is a longer wait list. The survey is compiled by the Fraser Institute who are a right wing / libertarian think tank."-NewsPressNow-Sept. 2017

So Canadians come to the U.S. for non-critical care that they would wait longer for in Canada.
They aren't coming because they can't get the care in Canada. They would just have to wait longer for non-critical procedures.

"A report of McKinsey and Co. from 2008 found that between 60,000 and 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care. The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006)."-Wikipedia

While Americans go to Canada because it's the only way they can afford care at all.

"More than a million Americans left the country seeking medical treatment, and that included a number of my own patients. More than one million Americans will leave the US for medical care this year Unlike the Canadians with whom I had contact, the Americans left to get medical care that was affordable and did not get any help from their insurance company or the federal government."-Business Insider-Aug. 2016

As you see, Americans are leaving the U.S. in droves to get care.
Americans leave for care because good care available in the U.S. is moot if you can't afford it.

No more of your made up stupid shit, Tool.

Now DANCE for me AssClown Shitstain Insipid. I command you! :lol:

[johnforbes]

Nobody would be thrown off any heath care.

The CBO was just playing games with numbers and was nonpartisan (as usual).

What would have happened was block grants to let state do what they wanted.

Millions of young people didn't need, or even want, health insurance but Obamacare mandated they have it.

These kids would not be kicked off; they would be liberated.