[snakeoil]

We've all heard the row over the way that military vets are treated by the VA Medical System. This, we are told is because there is just so much money to go around and it costs so much to honor our commitment to our vets. I wear a "22" pin in my jacket. When people ask me what it means, I explain to them that the pin stands for the 22 vets that commit suicide each day because we do not honor our commitment to those vets. Usually that cuts the conversation short.

My party (GOP) says that the wealthy pay too much in taxes and that we must give them even more tax breaks to keep America's economy rolling. I know that tax money only goes so far but look at where our military comes from. These figures from the DOD.

http://www.defense.gov/news/Dec2005/d20 ... thfact.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Defense Military Data Center

About 4.5% of the military comes from the poor socio-economic section of the citizens, about 24% comes from the downscale section, about 22% comes from the lower mid scale section, about 28% comes from the mid scale section, about 13% comes from the upper mid scale section, about 14% comes from the upscale section and about 4.5% comes from the wealthy section of the socio-economic section of the citizenry. It would seem that the wealthy benefit more from the service of our military than the rest of the populace. Is it unreasonable to ask them to pay a bit more to honor our commitment to our vets?

[RealJustme]

I agree our military is under funded and our Vets are being treated worse than illegals who sneak into our government. The $150 Billion Obama is spending this year to help illegals stay in the United States should be shifted to our military Vets and their health care. There should be NO ONE that receives better medical care than our Vets, the Government needs to make them a priority over illegals.

[johnforbes]

My one and only visit to a VA hospital was to see what one looked like.

I wandered in on a Sunday about noon.

There was a vast empty hallway, with what looked like a reception desk.

No a single person was anywhere, so I wandered the long hallway for about 15 minutes and never saw a soul.

But, even if I got checkups at a VA facility, I'd be in the last priority as a healthy person (which is as things should be).

[elklindo69]

This clusterfuck started under Bush and now the GOP and assorted baggers want to re-elect Bush to fix it up???

:roll:

[Clownkicker]

"... our Vets are being treated worse than illegals who sneak into our government."-RealTool

Once more RealTool is doing his handlers' bidding without knowing a thing about which he speaks.

"In 2013, the overall ACSI satisfaction index for VA was 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient care, which compares favorably with the U.S. hospital industry (scores of 80 and 83, respectively). Since 2004, the ACSI survey has consistently shown that Veterans give VA hospitals and clinics a higher customer satisfaction score, on average, than patients give private sector hospitals. These overall scores are based on specific feedback on customer expectations, perceived value and quality, responsiveness to customer complaints, and customer loyalty. One signature finding for 2013 is the continuing high degree of loyalty to VA among Veterans, with a score of 93 percent favorable. This score has remained high (above 90 percent) for the past ten years."

http://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2537

The VA healthcare is excellent according to veterans themselves. The only major drawback is getting in for a first appointment.
After that, things are better than the private sector.
And that problem is being addressed as we speak.
RealTool is going to pretend illegals are getting that kind of care. :lol:

We should all have such great socialized health care as our veterans receive.

[snakeoil]

Justme-

I agree our military is under funded

Are you kidding? We spend more on our military than several of the next highest spenders combined. We're making tanks and storing them so that Congressmen and Senators can keep their jobs. $2 billion for a bomber...are you kidding me? When was the last time a weapon system came in at budget? Ask an Iraq or Afghanistan vet if he bought his own sidearm, many did. Today there is one officer for every 4,8 enlisted men. I'm a vet and I can't wrap my head around that figure. Did you know that the retirement pay for a four star general with 30 years is about $13,000 a MONTH.

[snakeoil]

BTE-There are over 900,000 civilian personel in the DOD and they don't work free.

[RealJustme]

"In 2013, the overall ACSI satisfaction index for VA was 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient care, which compares favorably with the U.S. hospital industry (scores of 80 and 83, respectively). Since 2004, the ACSI survey has consistently shown that Veterans give VA hospitals and clinics a higher customer satisfaction score, on average, than patients give private sector hospitals.

Dude that's the same report that said Vet's were being seen within 48 hours of requesting an appointment to see a doctor, try and keep up. The VA workers who prepared it were fired.

[Clownkicker]

You can't just make up stupid shit, Tool.

The report of satisfaction with the VA services has been about the same for ten years.
Ten reports can't ALL be THE report that falsely said vets were being seen within 24 hours.

...Unless you're claiming that W. Bush was perpetrating a fraud on the country for years as well.
Is that what you're saying, Tool? George W. was a liar and he hated the troops?

[RealJustme]

The report of satisfaction with the VA services has been about the same for ten years.

Clown, read your own post, the report you quote is dated 2013

[Clownkicker]

Tool, you can't just make shit up.

The ACSI reports are independent of the U.S. Government.
Their reports have nothing to do with the people running the VA who were fudging the facts.

You can't pretend that the two reports are the same when they aren't.
To do so again when your usual gross ignorance has been pointed out to you would make you a liar.

[RealJustme]

The ACSI reports are independent of the U.S. Government.
Their reports have nothing to do with the people running the VA who were fudging the facts.

Dude, the report is on the VA's site who fudged the facts. Did you miss the news showing thousands of Vets died waiting on appointments, often years just to see a doctor? The VA even admitted they fabricated their satisfaction and appointment times. A private company would be bankrupt from lawsuits had they did that to patients. What is needed is a third party to come in an flush the VA and rebuilt it, in the mean time the government should fund private treatment until the VA is functional and cleared of slugs.

[Clownkicker]

"Dude, the report is on the VA's site who fudged the facts."-RealLiar

No, Tool, the report is not "on the VA's site..."
A summary of the findings of the report are mentioned on the VA site.

Regardless of what the VA has or doesn't have on their site, it doesn't alter the facts of the report by an independent organization. The report of the ACSI had nothing to do with the government or policies of the VA.

You ignorantly asserted that the VA provided substandard health care to veterans while illegals supposedly got better care.
That's because you're reliably a partisan idiot.
The fact is the VA provides excellent care to veterans once they get into the system.
They say so themselves.

All your attempts at distraction and your ignorant partisan dumbfuckery won't change that, dood.

[tvd]

Dude.....what is it you dudes don't understand?
The dudes in the government have plenty of money to do their dude stuff.

THEY WASTE IT.

I have said it before here, and I stand behind that statement.

Waste all the way down to the local level. Well, waste and corruption and graft.
Dudes....just fucking look around. If you cnnot see ten examples of waste staring you right in the face today, you are not looking.

But, no, no, no, says Clown. I am being led by my handlers.....that is not waste, that is a job provided by the government that is employing those that would otherwise be unemployed. That "waste is a good thing". That's good waste, dudes.

We need these fucking government dudes to spend the money we provide AS IF IT WERE THEIR OWN.

Righteous words, dude.

[RealJustme]

The dudes not care to get it, they're big government socialists who over looked all the fraud, waste and incompetent in the VA because, like they do in public schools because they're ran by public employees. The more public employees the better to them. There needs to be a ground up revamping of all government agencies, the military now has more civilian public employees than military members, time for change, starting in our government agencies.

[Clownkicker]

"But, no, no, no, says Clown. I am being led by my handlers.....that is not waste, that is a job provided by the government that is employing those that would otherwise be unemployed. That "waste is a good thing". That's good waste, dudes."-tvd

tvd, you can't just make up stupid shit.
Why is it none of you clowns can address anything I actually say instead of making up shit that I didn't say?

I didn't say waste was okay.
I didn't say anything at all about it. (That isn't the topic of this thread. You're free to bring it up, but don't get upset at me if I talk about other things.)
I refuted a single comment, that RealTool was wrong in claiming veterans were treated worse than illegals.

Instead of addressing what I said, you pretend I said waste is alright.
You pretend I said there is no waste at the VA.
I didn't.
Say it again and you're simply another liar like The Tool.
A good idea is to quote me when you think you are addressing something I supposedly said. That forces you to realize you're making it up when you can't find a quote saying what you only imagine I said.

There's no talking to you reactionaries because you never listen to anyone.
Not a one of you ever address a point I make.
You could start now by acknowledging that, regardless of any waste you may see, veterans are treated well by the VA once they are inside the system. Veterans themselves say so consistently. And they are certainly treated better than illegals whose main access to health care is through emergency rooms where only emergent medical problems are addressed.

[Clownkicker]

"The dudes not care to get it, they're big government socialists who over looked all the fraud, waste and incompetent in the VA because, like they do in public schools because they're ran by public employees."-RealLiar

Tool, the ACSI is about customer satisfaction.
They are not auditors or investigators of the government.
They do not endorse or condone any organization they ask about.

Their sole purpose is to find out how satisfied customers are with a given institution.

As always, you can't see the ignorance of your initial claim about how well veterans are treated, even when it is the veterans themselves telling you how well they are treated.

[RealJustme]

Tool, the ACSI is about customer satisfaction.

Dude, you still don't get do you? The only customers that were talked to were those customers that got appointments and guess who provided ACSI with a list of the customers they should poll? So you actually trust the VA to provide ACSI names and contact numbers for those who couldn't get appointments are those who complained to the VA about the service they got? It's no wonder all you liberals vote for are assholes who full you full of shit, you're stupid. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clownkicker]

Tool, you can't just make up stupid shit.

Well, unless you are talking to a conservative audience, of course.

[snakeoil]

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/12038/ ... Report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to this DOD report there is one officer for each 4.5 enlisted men in the Army. There is one officer for each 8.1 enlisted men in the Marines. Does this mean that Marines (not my branch of service) can get the job done with less supervision. LOL

[Clownkicker]

snakeoil, could it be that the Army has a lot more civilian employees than the Marines and those civilians are supervised by officers? That would make the officer/enlistee ratio a lot lower.

Don't know, just asking...

(but it WAS funny)

[snakeoil]

I don't know Clownkicker. That report is 221 pages long with about another 50 pages of intro. It does state that there are over 900,000 DOD civilian personnel. I don't have the exact figures on the ratio of officers to enlisted when I was in but I'm sure it was much different. I can't envision needing that many officers.

[RealJustme]

According to this DOD report there is one officer for each 4.5 enlisted men in the Army. There is one officer for each 8.1 enlisted men in the Marines. Does this mean that Marines (not my branch of service) can get the job done with less supervision. LOL

The report on page 159 indicates 43% of the Army is now female while the Marines only have 27% female, I suggest that's why more Officers are needed in the Army. To back that up the Air Force has the highest ratio of officers to enlisted and they also have the highest amount of females. The more females, the more support needed.

I can't envision needing that many officers.

Most of those officers and in staff positions not combat units and yes many of them don't have real jobs other than to fill a slot the military doesn't want to lose. Remember when Valerie Jarret instructed a General to fetch her a glass of wine and it was caught by the media? That's probably an officer position not really needed.