[snakeoil]

I while back I wrote that I reject the terms liberal or conservative because it limits our options for solving problems. I've often thought that people identify with one philosophy or another because it gives them a sense of belonging to something.

Today on CNN, they had a fact that 47 million people receive food benefits of some form from the SNAP program. That's about 1 in every 7 people in the USA. Anyone that thinks that is sustainable is out of their minds. BUT-BUT. What are we going to do in this weird economy where jobs are almost non-existant; let them starve? Is there anyone that doesn't believe that crime will skyrocket if we cut off all food subsidies? Parents are not going to let their children starve to death.

I'm sure that some of our members are ready to pounce on me right now. But let's look at a few facts.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/ ... -year.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$360 billion in Federal Reserve subsidies, by creating an artificial “spread” in interest rates (Bloomberg, Business Insider, Huffington Post, and many other publications have documented that the government is subsidizing big banks with artificial and guaranteed “spreads”, where the banks borrow cheaper than any consumer can, and then lend the money back to the government at much higher interest rates.)

$120 billion in federal deposit insurance (through the FDIC, backed by the Treasury)

At least $100 billion in government-guaranteed loans, especially mortgages

At least $100 billion in monopolistic advantages in the secondary market for home mortgages. Specifically, the government subsidies the big banks to steal away fees earned from smaller banks, gain on sale into the TBA market and servicing. Whalen quotes a veteran banker explaining:

The smaller players lived on the bleeding edge of the mortgage market, but they were also far more efficient lenders than the large banks. Now, care of the Fed, we have a highly inefficient oligopoly in the US mortgage market that is built around the largest banks.

More than $100 billion in fees in the over-the-counter (OTC) derivative market. Whalen explains

The lack of capital required in these transactions and other special dispensations from the Fed provide the zombie banks with unlimited leverage and almost no public scrutiny. The fact that OTC contracts are exempt from the automatic stay in bankruptcy is a huge subsidy. The bilateral market structure is another.

That totals $780 billion per year.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the United States, credible estimates of annual fossil fuel subsidies range from $10 billion to $52 billion annually yet these don’t even include costs borne by taxpayers related to the climate, local environmental, and health impacts of the fossil fuel industry.
Explore our interactive tool

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How much money do governments provide to support the oil, gas, and coal industries internationally?

Internationally, governments provide at least $775 billion to perhaps $1 trillion annually in subsidies. This figure varies each year, but it is consistently in the hundreds of billions. Greater transparency would allow for more precise figures.

http://www.ips-dc.org/corporate_tax_dodgers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HIGHLIGHTS OF 10 CORPORATE TAX DODGERS

Bank of America
Had $17.2 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Reported it would owe $4.3 billion in U.S. taxes if profits are brought home.

Citigroup
Had $42.6 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Reported it would owe $11.5 billion in U.S. taxes if profits are brought home.

ExxonMobil
Paid just a 15% federal income tax rate from 2010-2012, less than half the official 35% corporate tax rate – a tax subsidy of $6.2 billion. Had $43 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes.

FedEx
Made $5.7 billion from 2010-2012 and didn’t pay a dime in federal income taxes. Got a tax subsidy of $2.1 billion. Received $10.3 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

General Electric
Made $88 billion from 2002-2012 and paid just 2.4% in taxes for a tax subsidy of $29 billion. Paid no taxes in 4 years. Had $108 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $21.8 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Honeywell
Made $5 billion from 2009-2012 and paid just $50 million in federal income taxes – a tax subsidy of $1.7 billion. Had $11.6 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $16.7 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Merck
Made $13.6 billion and paid $2.5 billion in federal income taxes from 2009-2012. Paid an 18.4% federal income tax rate, half the official 35% rate – a tax subsidy of $2.2 billion. Had $53.4 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $8.7 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Microsoft
Saved $4.5 billion in federal income taxes from 2009-2011 by transferring profits to a subsidiary in the tax haven of Puerto Rico. Had $60.8 billion in profits stashed offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes; reported it would owe $19.4 billion if profits are brought home.

Pfizer
Received $2.2 billion in federal tax refunds from 2010-2012 while earning $43 billion worldwide even though 40% of its sales are in America. Had $73 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. income taxes. Received $3.4 billion in federal contracts from 2010-2012.
HIGHLIGHTS OF 10 CORPORATE TAX DODGERS

Bank of America
Had $17.2 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Reported it would owe $4.3 billion in U.S. taxes if profits are brought home.

Citigroup
Had $42.6 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Reported it would owe $11.5 billion in U.S. taxes if profits are brought home.

ExxonMobil
Paid just a 15% federal income tax rate from 2010-2012, less than half the official 35% corporate tax rate – a tax subsidy of $6.2 billion. Had $43 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes.

FedEx
Made $5.7 billion from 2010-2012 and didn’t pay a dime in federal income taxes. Got a tax subsidy of $2.1 billion. Received $10.3 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

General Electric
Made $88 billion from 2002-2012 and paid just 2.4% in taxes for a tax subsidy of $29 billion. Paid no taxes in 4 years. Had $108 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $21.8 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Honeywell
Made $5 billion from 2009-2012 and paid just $50 million in federal income taxes – a tax subsidy of $1.7 billion. Had $11.6 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $16.7 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Merck
Made $13.6 billion and paid $2.5 billion in federal income taxes from 2009-2012. Paid an 18.4% federal income tax rate, half the official 35% rate – a tax subsidy of $2.2 billion. Had $53.4 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes. Received $8.7 billion in federal contracts from 2006-2012.

Microsoft
Saved $4.5 billion in federal income taxes from 2009-2011 by transferring profits to a subsidiary in the tax haven of Puerto Rico. Had $60.8 billion in profits stashed offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. taxes; reported it would owe $19.4 billion if profits are brought home.

Pfizer
Received $2.2 billion in federal tax refunds from 2010-2012 while earning $43 billion worldwide even though 40% of its sales are in America. Had $73 billion in profits offshore in 2012 on which it paid no U.S. income taxes. Received $3.4 billion in federal contracts from 2010-2012.

Verizon
Made $19.3 billion in U.S. pretax profits from 2008-2012 but paid no federal income taxes during the period; instead got $535 million in tax rebates. Total tax subsidy: $7.3 billion. Received up to $6 billion in federal contracts from 2011 through 2023.
Verizon
Made $19.3 billion in U.S. pretax profits from 2008-2012 but paid no federal income taxes during the period; instead got $535 million in tax rebates. Total tax subsidy: $7.3 billion. Received up to $6 billion in federal contracts from 2011 through 2023.[/code]

Then there's utility subsidies, agricultural subsidies and even subsidies to the publishing industry.

On top of this massive giveaway to business, we have the trade agreements (that were supposed to create many millions of jobs) sending our jobs overseas where the wages are so low that Americans can't compete. Now there is talk about a Pacific Rim Treaty. How many more breaks does Asia need?

Now for the other side of the coin. These subsidies generate dividends and earnings for the stockholders. Without profits there will be no investors and then unemployment and civil strife would be many times greater. I point this out to show how complicated these issues are.

I'm sure that, somewhere in this handout to others, that there is some benefits available to get these people back on their feet, earning a livable wage and contributing to the economy.

[Intrepid]

As long as you continue handouts to people with no incentive to earn them, they are going to continue to hold their hands out and eventually think it is their right to receive them. Eventually hell, they already do think that.

Now we have the Dear Leader flooding the country with dirt poor, unskilled, diseased and destitute illegals (not to mention the gang members, other assorted criminals and, no doubt, terrorists that are inserting themselves into the invasion flood) that he thinks over time can be converted into Donkey-Rat voters so as to continue the handout of Free Stuff and promote the decline of the United States into his desired third world status that needs to be administered by "enlightened" elites such as himself.

See anything wrong with this picture? Why should not this man be thrown from office the first thing Monday morning?

[RealJustme]

I have no problem with allowing businesses to keep more of their own money (odd how liberals call that a subsidy) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Without those businesses paying all the taxes they do the poor who pay no taxes would be homeless and starve because there would be no tax money to hand out in entitlements. We need to let businesses keep more of their money not take more for them.

[elklindo69]

I have no problem with allowing businesses to keep more of their own money (odd how liberals call that a subsidy) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Without those businesses paying all the taxes they do the poor who pay no taxes would be homeless and starve because there would be no tax money to hand out in entitlements. We need to let businesses keep more of their money not take more for them.

Yeah...the infrastructure builds itself.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[snakeoil]

Intrepid-I think your inferring impeachment. This is not a concept to be thrown around lightly. Too many "leaders" throw this word around to rile up the people not realizing the harm that they do. Impeachment is a serious step to take. Whoever is impeached has been elected by the voters. Impeachment nullifies their vote. Obama, who I consider a poor President, was elected by the people. The last time I heard his approval ratings were about 47%. This means that almost half of the people think that he is doing alright. Another percentage think he is wrong but they would protest at getting their vote nullified. Remember,impeachment is highly political and will spead caos throughout our country. A side effect would be that our standing in the International Community would be diminished and that would make it harder to infuence others to accept our ideals. Another side effect would be that the business of the country would be put on hold for a while (even worse than it has been.)

[RealJustme]

Yeah...the infrastructure builds itself.

No trillions in tax dollars taken from businesses and 50% of Americans have, but are you saying businesses build themselves and should be punished by taking more money from them? Again I laugh when I hear someone call being allowed to keep some of the profits from my business a subsidy.

[Intrepid]

Snake, No, I'm not talking about impeachment. That wouldn't work, given that the Senate is controlled by the senile Harry Reid. Plus it would give the Donkey-Rats ammunition to be able to howl about racism....again.

No, I think that dragging him into the town square and beating him severely with the fat end of a pool cue would be far more appropriate.

This is an invasion, pure and simple.

[johnforbes]

Obama's Dept of Agriculture WANTS millions more on food stamps.

They even make the crazy argument that such dependency improves nutrition.

Obama wants EVERYBODY to depend upon the federal government so that America becomes a bloated Sweden.

[snakeoil]

Justme-Either you didn't read my post or you didn't understand it. The listing of the "corporate tax dodgers" is major companies that made billions in profits and paid little (and many times no) taxes. In reality, I can't fault these companies for taking every legal tax break that they can. It they didn't maximize profits their shareholders could sue them. My problem is with the tax laws that treat some more equal than others.

As to businesses paying their fair share; think of the benefits those taxes buy.

Fire Department (Even volunteer companies are heavily subsidized by local governments
Police Department
Infrastructure (Rememberm trucks impact the infrastructure more than cars do.)
Regulations (Get back off the wall. If I had a chicken business that killed many people with bad products, think of the negative impact that would have on your chicken business.)
Water & Sewage
Welfare programs (Get back off the wall. Those people on subsistance don't hoard that money, They spend the majority of it on local businesses. Many of these programs keep the people receiving them healthy enough to shop with you.)
Local government to build up your community to make it conducive to business.
In many communities, garbage collection.
The military to protect your business from foreign invaders
Flood protection in some areas
Community planning departments
Zoning to ensure that structures are constructed right and will not adversely impact surrounding businesses and homes

[snakeoil]

BTW-Did you know that there is a residential house in Bermuda that is home to 43,000 corporations from around the globe that have this as their mailing address to avoid taxes.

[snakeoil]

To put inperspective just how complex this problem is, please watch this video (4 min.) In the mid eighties, I worked with a Chinese architect that was working in this country on a work permit. He often bemoaned the fact that China didn't have the techical knowledge to compete with the USA.

[RealJustme]

I can't fault these companies for taking every legal tax break that they can. It they didn't maximize profits their shareholders could sue them. My problem is with the tax laws that treat some more equal than others.

Sounds like you support a flat tax for everyone just like I do, that way scams like the Clinton Foundation would have to pay their fair share of taxes. By the way for on $79.00 you can buy a orange piece of rubber to wear on your wrist to show you care about the world, compliments of the Clintons.

http://store.jawbone.com/store?Action=p ... =259349300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, the jawbone store is one of 133 online stores owned by the Clintons, all tax exempt, all scamming the naïve out of their money. If you like you can even donate directly on their website.

http://www.clintonfoundation.org/donate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sad part of it is, not only is the Clinton foundation tax exempt it received over $180 million in tax dollars to help their bank accounts...I mean causes.

[snakeoil]

Justme-I definately do not support a flat tax. It is a regressive tax that penalizes the poor for being poor. It results in the poor paying a much higher portion of their income in taxes than the rich. I support a graduated income tax with no deductions for anyone. If that tax were inacted, the tax rate would fall dramatically because everyone would be paying taxes.

[tvd]

If that tax were inacted, the tax rate would fall dramatically because everyone would be paying taxes.

Naw, it wouldn't.....it might at implementation be a lower numeric rate....

If this is done, they will set rates where there is absolutely a net even revenue income to the wasters.
They won't lose any money, you can bet your ass.
If this can be published as a decrease in taxes to the masses, they will be all on it. You will see claims like "Your taxes went from 15% down to 9%...elect us!!!!".

Then, and I predict very quickly, they will raise rates back up to 15% (as in the example above and only hypothetical, of course), justifying it by saying it is only back up to where it used to be....

Resulting in a net revenue increase that they will waste and higher taxes for all.

I agree with the no exemptions aspect of Snake's post. There are entirely too many ways for people to get out of paying taxes, and they are legal too. Get rid of those loopholes...offshore income is one of them.

Me, I'll just keep dealing in CASH!!! LOL!!!!