[sillydaddy]

By now you have all heard what Obama's plans are for our military, so I won't bother giving you links. Besides cutting the military to the size it was during the last years of the Great Depression....what few soldiers we will have left, will get a cut in pay and benefits, and will pay more to support their families. That will guarantee recruitments will remain low.

The thinking is that we will no longer be fighting large scale wars that require large scale deployments. It seems the terrorists now have a say how we will fight them in the future.

Obama,never even having worn a pair of combat boots, wants us to fight the terrorists one on one, mano a mano.

Meanwhile, it seems he's more concern how Uganda treats fags in that country than trying to find a solution to our country's problems. What an asshole. The libs love him.

[Benny]

That's silly. Nobody wants us to be defenseless. Do you always think in extremes? We don't need a zillion man standing army to go fight needless wars.

[Grog]

Silly, all the more reason for you and your compadres to William Travis up and get your asses to the Republic of Texas and begin fortifications.









Remember The Alamo!

[RealJustme]

....what few soldiers we will have left, will get a cut in pay and benefits, and will pay more to support their families. That will guarantee recruitments will remain low.

There is no questioning that Obama has attacked our military to degrade it. He's waived physical fitness standards so single women with 4 children can fill a position, he taken combat positions and given them females who can't deploy, he's removed seasoned Generals and replaced them with Czars loyal to him, plus he's insured moral would be destroyed by putting gays into their showers...now he's cutting combat troops and taking food from the families' plates of those who remain. There is no questioning Obama is attempting to destroy our military, the question is why?

[johnforbes]

As noted on another thread, France and other nations were once strong.

Then they took steps to become weak on the global stage.

Obama wanting the shrink the Army to pre-WW II levels is yet another step to weaken the country, to turn it into Sweden writ large.

England slept before WW II, and so did the U.S.

Even in very small wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, the military was stretched and reserve components had to step in.

Already, past allies have wondered about America keeping any of its security promises, and places such as Israel and Canada et al. should start to realize they can no longer depend on the U.S.

[sillydaddy]

Grog and the other libs have their heads so far up Obama's ass they can't see past his ass cheeks.

Drastic cuts in the military will have a domino effect on an already weak economy.

It's not only the troops that will lose jobs, pay and benefits.

Ten of thousands of Americans and their families depend on jobs provided by the government contractors
that supply the military. They will lose their jobs too...and so on down the line.

[Clownkicker]

So now sillydope is just fine with bloated government spending when the cuts hit his pet causes, but he's still adamant spending should be cut when it only affects the poor because their families' welfare apparently doesn't matter as much as the welfare of families of civilian contractors jacking prices for government work.

Typical conservative hypocrisy.

[johnforbes]

As noted on another thread, France and other nations were once strong.

Then they took steps to become weak on the global stage.

Obama wanting the shrink the Army to pre-WW II levels is yet another step to weaken the country, to turn it into Sweden writ large.

England slept before WW II, and so did the U.S.

Even in very small wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, the military was stretched and reserve components had to step in.

Already, past allies have wondered about America keeping any of its security promises, and places such as Israel and Canada et al. should start to realize they can no longer depend on the U.S.

[RealJustme]

Obama and Holder better hurry, they have less than 3 years left to destroy our military.

[tvd]

So now sillydope is just fine with bloated government spending when the cuts hit his pet causes, but he's still adamant spending should be cut when it only affects the poor because their families' welfare apparently doesn't matter as much as the welfare of families of civilian contractors jacking prices for government work.

Typical conservative hypocrisy.

You have a valid point...a simplistic valid point. I will give you that. But it ain't that simple.

But there is a significant difference. Government money going to "the poor" produces/provides nothing to very little.
Government money going to "civilian contractors" provides a DEFENSE. A tangible value add.

However, as I have said numerous times on the old board, before the great SCHISM, there is simply too much waste in everything the government does. Get the government on a lean, mean, efficient operation regimen, and we would be much better off. Cut the waste.

[johnforbes]

There really is a ton of waste in the military, but the trend is to create more.

Imagine all the staffers necessary to make it look as if women can perform in combat just like men.

Imagine the staff needed to deal with all the problems openly gay soldiers will cause.

Look at the bloated staff hanging around the Pentagon.

Look at the chaplains, psychologists, nurses, doctors, etc in uniform when they should all be civilians.

But none of that will be changed. Instead, the military operative capability will be cut.

[tvd]

^^^^^^ Yup.

Same with the schools, same with Medicare, Medicaid, same with student loans, same with Fannie and Freddie, same with government intrusion into hiring, wages, employment, same with etc. etc. etc.

[Grog]

tvd says " Government money going to "the poor" produces/provides nothing to very little."

I'm curious. What do poor people do with that money? Do they horde it or "invest" it like wealthy people, or do they buy frivolities like food and shelter? I mean, if they're buying food, isn't that an element of creating demand, and isn't demand a key element of capitalism?

Here's a question along these lines: You have $1 million dollars. Which is going to provide more economic stimulus; Giving $1000 to 1000 poor or poorer people who will use it go out and buy things and pay bills and such, or giving $1 million to one wealthy person who will follow the established patterns of the wealthy and sit on most of it or "invest" it some hot IPO?


To the larger question of this thread topic about downsizing the military, I think Obama explained much of the reasoning to candidate Romney: We have fewer ships and thus fewer people than before because we have aircraft carriers and such, and drones and whatever, just a more efficient and streamlined means of maintaining "defense." And it's a different world. How did a huge military work out on 9/11?

[RealJustme]

How did a huge military work out on 9/11?

It allowed us to respond and stop future attacks!

[Grog]

But of course!

However, some might argue that the actual real world evidence more than demonstrates we were defenseless on 9/11 even though we had the biggest military on the planet.









Custer

[RealJustme]

However, some might argue that the actual real world evidence more than demonstrates we were defenseless on 9/11 even though we had the biggest military on the planet.

How do you consider we were defenseless? Are you saying we should have attacked them before they attacked us on 9/11? Or should we have arrested the terrorists before they did anything wrong?

[tvd]

Yeah, I knew Grog would right along to challenge my "poor don't produce anything" comments.

What do they do with the money they have for subsistence? They do the same thing I do, that you do. They spend it and generate movement in the economy. The key is they do the same thing that the middle class does, that the rich do....they spend it to live on.

But then they go sit on the porch. I and millions of others go to work, to earn more money to pump into the economy. Those millions and millions of workers generate an output, something tangible that has value to society.

Mind you, I am NOT AGAINST government programs to help those that need it. I AM AGAINST wasting taxpayer dollars on programs that don't work, on those in society that scam/play the system...you know...those that now have 4 Obamaphones instead of one....the guy in San Diego that drives a Escalade, eats lobster, hangs out on the beach...all on food stamps and government provided "assistance". I know, I know, just one anecdotal example....but there are millions of those examples...Medicare fraud, food stamps for sale/trade for drugs....on and on...

So, that's what the poor do with their monies.....they do the same thing you and I do, but generally produce nothing.
If I am wrong, then provide me with some examples of the poor on assistance/welfare/food stamps that generate any kind of tangible benefit to the country, other than the measly economic stimulus you suggest.

[elklindo69]

How many billions are wasted on maintaining bases in foreign nations?

Do we really need to have obsolete bases in Germany?

The constitution clearly states that the government is to provide for a "national defense." I can understand having an imposing navy to defend the shores and the shipping lanes along with an air force to protect the air space. But I'm not going for having our troopers on foreign soil.

As far as I'm concerned, we should have conscription just like the Swiss do. I can guarantee that no enemy would think about attacking the mainland if they new at least half of the population had infantry training...

[RealJustme]

I can guarantee that no enemy would think about attacking the mainland if they new at least half of the population had infantry training...

Thus the 2nd Amendment.

Carlos

[tvd]

Ahhh hahahahahahah. Very very good Just....
He walked right into that one, and to use one of his favorite quotes...ROFLMAO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Grog]

You mean the amendment that talks of a "well-regulated militia?"


tvd, I don't know what they do any more than you know what they don't. Like you said, you can throw up all kinds of anecdotal stuff about Escalades and lobsters just as I can throw up actual, non-anecdotal stuff about $500 hammers and toilet seats the DOD still buys.

My point is that the poor do return something whenever they spend Forbes' hard-earned tax dollars on luxuries. Defense contractors also return something as long as there are politicians who want others to pull a trigger or push a button.

I guess a lot of it depends on where you stand on things. Like, if you're a 1%'r, then Reagan's trickle down economics continue to be a wonderful thing. But if you're middle class or lower, probably not so much.

And I guess it depends if you think having lots of troops to support with car magnets is more important than putting food in a poor person's belly. WWJD?

[elklindo69]

I can guarantee that no enemy would think about attacking the mainland if they new at least half of the population had infantry training...

Thus the 2nd Amendment.

Carlos

As a corollary, Iraq would never have been invaded if Bush faced the possibility of forcing his base into combat...

[johnforbes]

Elkin, what a silly thing for you to say.

You've never been drafted, so you have no idea what you are talking about.

Cheney dodged the draft, and so did Clinton.

If you look at America's last war widely deemed wonderful, and look at a local Selective Service board's records, as I have, you'll find all sorts of people seeking all sorts of deferments, occupational, medical, and so on.

Nobody wants to be forcibly taken from their school, job, family, and send to some armpit of the world to make $100 per month while facing the risk of death or injury.

[sillydaddy]

Elk is correct about the foreign nations. We not only give them US dollars but supply them with weapons. Lets cut that government waste first, lets downsize their armies !......

I was surprised to find that we are sending aid to North Korea, Cuba and even China!

[elklindo69]

Elkin, what a silly thing for you to say.

You've never been drafted, so you have no idea what you are talking about.

Cheney dodged the draft, and so did Clinton.

If you look at America's last war widely deemed wonderful, and look at a local Selective Service board's records, as I have, you'll find all sorts of people seeking all sorts of deferments, occupational, medical, and so on.

Nobody wants to be forcibly taken from their school, job, family, and send to some armpit of the world to make $100 per month while facing the risk of death or injury.

As I said before, if Bush faced the prospects of sending in his base to fight a foreign conflict not related to national defense, then there would not have been an Iraq war.

I spent 6 years in the national guard as an Army Sapper (12B). And we met RA guys who did 3-4 tours in Iraq, do you really think it's fun for people in the reserves to get pulled away from their families to serve overseas?

[elklindo69]

Elk is correct about the foreign nations. We not only give them US dollars but supply them with weapons. Lets cut that government waste first, lets downsize their armies !......

I was surprised to find that we are sending aid to North Korea, Cuba and even China!

And China in turn supports North Korea knowing they don't want North and South Korea unified.

It doesn't particularly thrill the Chinese to have a US ally sitting right next to their front door...

[RealJustme]

I spent 6 years in the national guard as an Army Sapper (12B). And we met RA guys who did 3-4 tours in Iraq, do you really think it's fun for people in the reserves to get pulled away from their families to serve overseas?

You do know there is a difference between the National Guard and the Reserves...don't you?

[Grog]

I'm pretty sure that's why he distinguished himself from the RA guys.


Don't you have some "fresh" outdated Teamails to post, JustFreedManMe?

[johnforbes]

Grog, please learn the difference between "horde" and "hoard."

If you learn something here, your time will not have been a waste.

[RealJustme]

I'm pretty sure that's why he distinguished himself from the RA guys.

What makes you think that?

[Grog]

If he wasn't aware there is distinction, why else would he make the distinction by noting it?


Good job, Forbes. Have your Foley scribes note that today you scored your first points on me, with a misspelling. It must be a tall drink of water for you after years in the desert.

[RealJustme]

If he wasn't aware there is distinction, why else would he make the distinction by noting it?

What makes you think he made a distinction?

[Grog]

You're a particularly dense three year old tonight. As such, it is even more difficult than usual to even pretend an attempt at discussion with you.

You may continue as you see fit.

[johnforbes]

Grog suggested it was a rare thing for me to note something like Grog's failure to distinguish "horde" from "hoard."

But it is not rare; that sort of thing happens often.

Two nights ago, the final clue on "Jeopardy!" was missed by all three contestants, but I knew John Brown from having hiked and camped near Harper's Ferry.

Just recently, none of the contestants on "Jeopardy!" knew the author of An Essay on Man. But I shouted the correct answer at the TV.

[Clownkicker]

No, johnny, all you actually know is that you perceived a patch of color and perceived some sounds that you believe gave an answer to a question, and then you perceived that you knew the correct question, but the reality is more complex than that.
There's no way of knowing what you were perceiving or that such a thing as "Jeopardy" even exists. You think you are a successful man with an education, but you can't possibly know that. It's all simply in your mind.

Your actual reality is that you're sitting in a padded room in a mental facility hearing voices and shouting at the wall.
The bright side is that you will never understand this and become aware of your drooling horror of a life.

[johnforbes]

Dr. Johnson, Berkeley...

[elklindo69]

If he wasn't aware there is distinction, why else would he make the distinction by noting it?

What makes you think he made a distinction?

RA stands for regular army or the active duty troops, as opposed to army reserve/national guard.

[RealJustme]

RA stands for regular army or the active duty troops, as opposed to army reserve/national guard.

Only someone who hasn't served would feel they have to explain the obvious.