[BilboBagend]

Snap Guns

[johnforbes]

The notion that 48 million Americans should be on food stamps is idiotic.

[Intrepid]

The original post was brought to you by someone who claims to have a mind educated to the level of a Ph.D degree.
Hilarity ensues.....

[brandon]

The Republicans expanded the food stamp program before President Obama ever took office. The 2002 farm bill—passed by a Republican-controlled House and signed by Republican President George W. Bush—expanded the food stamp program. “The food-stamp boom began with the George W. Bush Republicans, who expanded benefits in the 2002 farm bill.”

The 2008 farm bill further expanded the program. " Although Bush vetoed that farm bill (he didn’t cite the increase for food stamps in his veto message), congressional Republicans were instrumental in enabling the “Pelosi Congress” to override it. In the House, 99 (out of 195) Republicans joined most Democrats in voting to override the veto. In the Senate, only 12 Republicans voted to sustain Bush’s veto."

And the last time I checked, the majority of gun related homicides took place in the inner cities. Exactly where the tough gun laws are already in place. The rest of the nation doesn't need new gun laws restricting their freedoms. Even at that the gun control issue is actually less of an issue than our drunk driving problem.

According to the DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, in 2011 there were 11,101 gun related homicides.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that 17,941 people die in alcohol related vehicle collisions annually.

Bilbo seems to be the very definition of a mindless, clueless, extremist, partisan kook.

[snakeoil]

Please note:

700,000 veterans and their families are on food stamps. 22 veterans commit suicide each day. Will the loss of food stamps increase this number?

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BilboBagend]

The usual moronic teagaggers have no idea of what it means, nor the honesty to have an honest discussion.

They are right. We should have fewer people on food stamps. Yet, they support nothing that would actually correct the atrocities that lead to that situation.

Still, this was obviously about their hypocrisy and gun control. Those are two observable facts they don't want to address.

[brandon]

Seems to me you're the one who has no clue about what you're posting Bilbo.

I would welcome an honest discussion about any gun control issues or any legislation or partisan proposals you perceive as hypocritical.

Really, bring it. I'm a reasonable guy.

[BilboBagend]

I doubt it from your past posts.

First, the Constitution does not guarantee the unrestricted right to have guns. 1) The language is clearly in the context of forming a militia (state). 2) None of our rights are unrestricted. None. All have conditions and regulations. Just as they should. Rights conflict. Relative importance is extremely important. 3) Highly dangerous weapons have always been restricted. The argument is over which weapons, not the right to bear arms.

[brandon]

I can't find where the Constitution mentions guns Bilbo. I did find the mention of arms in the Bill of rights though. Specifically the 2nd amendment to the Constitution. And I'm not going to presumptively lecture about my interpretation of the 2nd amendment, or what I think others don't understand. Because the only interpretation that matters is that of the Supreme Court of the United States.

But just in case you missed it.


District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home and within federal enclaves. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states,[1] which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case in United States history to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.[2

McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. The decision cleared up the uncertainty left in the wake of District of Columbia v. Heller as to the scope of gun rights in regard to the states.

Now that we have that cleared up, can you tell me which guns you would like to see banned, and why? Can you demonstrate or statistically document your argument? If you are going to make an argument for assault weapons keep in mind that the evidence of some grand problem is just not there. Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general.

Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). There are close to 4 million assault weapons in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock. Less than four percent of all homicides in the United States involve any type of rifle. No more than .8% of homicides are perpetrated with rifles using military calibers.

If you are going to make an argument about handguns, you have a great deal more footing. But keep in mind that

gun violence is concentrated in urban areas .... 60 percent of U.S. firearm homicides happen in the 62 cities of the country’s 50 largest metro areas.

...and that is mostly between gang members as shooters and as victims. Using mostly 9mm handguns. Almost always obtained illegally. And, that is exactly where the tough gun laws are already in place.

I don't see any reason the rest of us should have any more restrictions placed on us when we are not the problem.

See, reasonable.

Your turn.

[brandon]

Bilbo?

[BilboBagend]

You need not lecture about the 2nd Amendment. The language and historical context are clear. They do not in any way support the radical anarchist view of the 2nd Amendment. All rights are subject to regulation to defend more important rights, like life and liberty. That is completely clear and includes every right enumerated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and all the non-enumerated individual rights specifically not assigned to government.

[BilboBagend]

Free Speech


You may not "Yell Fire in a Theater" when there is no fire". Free speech is regualted to pre4serve the safety of the people.

You may not extort people, even though it amounts to nothing more than speech (up until you actually harm someone).

You may not build a radio station and broadcast, even though that is also simply speech.

Many things go into making a society work, compromise and regulation are a critical part of it.

If you want absolute freedom, go someplace where you are alone and do not have any interactions with your felloe humans.



OR


Deal with the realities of having a human community and the requirements to keep it peaceful and prosperous. Your temper tantrums about having your rights limited for the common good are just that, little baby temper tantrums from an absolutist "Me, Me, Me" person.

[RealJustme]

Deal with the realities of having a human community and the requirements to keep it peaceful and prosperous. Your temper tantrums about having your rights limited for the common good are just that, little baby temper tantrums from an absolutist "Me, Me, Me" person.

Deal with the reality that we have the right to bear arms and gun sales are sky rocketing

[johnforbes]

The problem is that Obama and his ilk see the Constitution as nothing more than a piece of dusty paper instead of a set of enduring principles.

No, it was not perfect, but it guided America to its former status as the best big country in the entire history of mankind.

Everybody, on the Left or the Right, realizes that America is now in steep decline.

[brandon]

Bilbo, I don't understand what is wrong with you but just in case you missed your post, let's review for a minute. You started a thread to show the hypocrisy you see regarding Republicans and the food stamp program and their positions on gun control. You got laughed at and called an idiot. Then I showed you that, yes they scaled the program back, but that it was actually a Republican president, Republican controlled House, and Republican members of the Senate that expanded the program to begin with, and then fought and succeeded in expanding it again. And you scoffed at that and insisted on your claims.

You still with me?

Then I showed you that gun related homicide is not the immense problem you believe it to be. That it is mostly an inner city problem related to gangs. And that it is less of an issue than our drunk driving problem. You responded to that with one of your speeches about how people who have a different opinion than you are extremists who don't understand their rights. I posted two decisions from the Supreme Court to support my position. I then welcomed an honest discussion. You doubted that also and lectured again. I then asked you a direct question...

can you tell me which guns you would like to see banned, and why? ~ Brandon

Then, as usual, you scoff again and lecture again about me not understanding and then you bring up other issues and make your usual claim that you are the only caring humanist here on Earf.

Are you getting any of this? In your own thread about the hypocrisy and ignorance of others, you have had the opposite of your assertion demonstrated to you, and you yourself have made a personal demonstration of ignorance.

Your on some serious drugs aren't you? Put the pipe down for a while and let the smoke clear.


You're a kook dude.


:lol:

[brandon]

Bilbo?