[anon8490]

Despite our "lack" of guns, our increasingly secular society and our multicultural make up the UK is becoming less violent.

I have argued this topic with the likes of Leroy and Justaretard many times on this forum and they always claim that lack of personal protection leads to more violence.

This is blatantly not so...

Rates of murder and violent crime have fallen more rapidly in the UK in the past decade than many other countries in Western Europe, researchers say.

The UK Peace Index, from the Institute for Economics and Peace, found UK homicides per 100,000 people had fallen from 1.99 in 2003, to one in 2012.

The UK was more peaceful overall, it said, with the reasons for it varied.

The index found Broadland, Norfolk, to be the most peaceful local council area but Lewisham, London, to be the least.

The research by the international non-profit research organisation comes as a separate study by Cardiff University suggests the number of people treated in hospital in England and Wales after violent incidents fell by 14% in 2012.

Some 267,291 people required care - 40,706 fewer than in 2011 - according to a sample of 54 hospital units, its report said.

BBC home editor Mark Easton called it the "riddle of peacefulness" and said the fall in violence was "perhaps a symptom of a new morality".

Continue reading the main story
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Start Quote
I do wonder whether the analysis is focusing on traditional social and criminal justice theories when the answer to the quite remarkable drop in violence may lie somewhere else entirely. Could it be that global communication is having a calming effect on people's behaviour?”
End Quote image of Mark Easton
Mark Easton

Home editor

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Read more from Mark
The riddle of peacefulness

"We are less tolerant of violence in all forms," our correspondent added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275280

Meanwhile, in the USA:

The rate of violent crime in the United States went up fifteen percent last year, a new government report shows.


The crime rate rose for the second year in a row, marking an end to two decades of declining crime rates.

A survey of victims by the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 26 of every 1,000 people experienced violent crime, a fifteen percent increase in reports of rape, robbery or assault.

The figures also show that property crime which involves the taking of money or property like burglary and car theft rose twelve percent.

For 2011, data from the victims’ survey also found an increase in violent crime, up 17 percent from 2010, the sharpest rise in two decades.

[brandon]

It seems you all still have a bit further to go.

However, the UK violent crime rate is still significantly higher than the European Union average, the report added

The US is still in a terrible recession, millions have lost their homes and millions are unemployed and the economy is getting worse. An increase in youth unemployment and thousands of "youths" with nothing but time and imagination on their hands would result in higher crime.

Still, fifteen percent overall over two years is worth a second look.

According to DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. gun-related homicides dropped 39 percent over the course of 18 years, from 18,253 during 1993, to 11,101 in 2011. During the same period, non-fatal firearm crimes decreased even more, a whopping 69 percent. Firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006, and then declined again through 2011. Non-fatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004, then fluctuated in the mid-to-late 2000s.

I would have to guess this is related to more to the recession than anything. I certainly wouldn't make a fantastic assertion that your drop in crime is related to increasing secularism, multiculturalism, or some "new" secular morality. Nor would I be so arrogant as to assert that soaring numbers of law abiding American gun owners are the real problem in America.

With the toughest gun laws in the nation, Chicago saw homicides jump to 513 in 2012, a 15% hike in a single year. The city’s murder rate is 15.65 per 100,000 people, compared with 4.5 for the Midwest, and 5.6 for Illinois.

Up to 80 percent of Chicago murders and non-fatal shootings are gang- related, primarily young black and Hispanic men killed by other black and Hispanic men. Would tightening gun laws even more, or “requiring” background checks, change these conditions?

Gwainevere Catchings Hess, president of the Black Women’s Agenda (BWA), Inc., an organization that strongly advocates strict gun-control legislation, rightly points out that “In 2009, black males ages 15-19 were eight times as likely as white males the same age, and 2.5 times as likely as their Hispanic peers to be killed in a gun homicide.”
Today, 72% of black children are born out of wedlock, as are 53% of Hispanic children and 36% of white children. Promiscuous rappers, prosperous dope peddlers and street gang leaders are becoming ever more influential role models. It’s probably no big stretch of imagination to correlate such grossly disproportionate crime and victimization rates with comparably staggering rates of single-parent families, those without fathers in particular.

Also and maybe most importantly, we are suffering from multiple crises of mental health, cultural and familial breakdown and immorality we seem unable to confront. Holding the weapon used responsible instead of the individual who committed the crime responsible, as we do, is misguided and silly.

Just sayin'.

[BilboBagend]

Every shopping mall, military base, school, church, or other public place mass murder shooting spree has one thing in common. 100% of them.

[RealJustme]

Every shopping mall, military base, school, church, or other public place mass murder shooting spree has one thing in common. 100% of them.

Yep, murders!

[anon8490]

In the US you are 5 times more likely to be murdered than in the UK (as a percentage of the population) and of the 640 murders in the UK in 2011 44 were attributable to firearms.

Of the 15000 murders in the US for the same period over 9000 were as a result of firearms.

despite having less than 5% of the world's population, the USA has roughly 35-50% of the world's civilian-owned guns.

The United States has 88 firearms per 100 people. Yemen, the second highest gun ownership country in the world has 54.8.

FBI statistics.

Since 1996 when the UK banned assault weapons and handguns there have been NO mass shootings (as defined by the FBI - 4 or more victims in one incident) and a steady decline in shooting related crime

The basic fact remains that it is the availability of weapons in the US that allows them to be used so freely as murder tools. On top of that there are over 18000 suicides and accidental deaths by firearms and more than 10000 injuries per year.

Yes Brandon, of course we have further to go. But I think we are far better placed than the US to get there without a culture of gun ownership....

[RealJustme]

In the US you are 5 times more likely to be murdered than in the UK (as a percentage of the population) and of the 640 murders in the UK in 2011 44 were attributable to firearms.

In the United States you're 10 times more likely to be murdered by a firearm in cities where firearms are prohibited than where citizens are allowed to have firearms. The solution to the firearm murder problem is easy...allow law abiding citizens to carry weapons and do frequent random searches of convicted felons homes and their persons for weapons, lock the felon up if caught with a gun. ALL crimes would plummet and the streets would once again be safe to walk at night. It's that simple folks, you don't have to be an actuary to arrive at that conclusion. The Obama Administration wants to do just the opposite, disarm lawful citizens while cuddling felons allowing them to be the only ones on the street with firearms.

[anon8490]

And there goes Justaretard spouting out the NRA mantra that the only solution to gun crime is MORE guns!!!! Which of course means more gun sales and more money for the gun manufacturers....

Of course, it is only retards like JM who could fall for such an obvious lie... but then the US appears to have more than its fair share of educationally challenged individuals like him.

[RealJustme]

And there goes Justaretard spouting out the NRA mantra that the only solution to gun crime is MORE guns!!!! Which of course means more gun sales and more money for the gun manufacturers....

Of course, it is only retards like JM who could fall for such an obvious lie... but then the US appears to have more than its fair share of educationally challenged individuals like him.

Dude, it's a good thing you're not allowed to have a gun, you have real anger control issues. I have no problem keeping guns out of hands of people like you, I'm talking about allowing sane law abiding citizens carrying them. Murders are lower in cities where they allow sane law abiding citizens to carry a gun...that's a fact jack!

Carlos

[anon8490]

I have no problem keeping guns out of hands of people like you, I'm talking about allowing sane law abiding citizens carrying them.

Of the 61 mass shootings in the US since 1982, 95% of the perpetrators have obtained their weapons legally... "law abiding citizens" in your world JM...

15 of the 25 worst mass shootings WORLDWIDE in the last 50 years have happened in the US.

Murders are lower in cities where they allow sane law abiding citizens to carry a gun...that's a fact jack!

Of course, a meaningless anecdote as there is no necessary correlation between the two facts. In Chicago, where they have horrendous levels of gun homicide they have strict gun control. BUT, if they had lenient gun control then that does not mean the homicide rate would decline... it could well increase. Also, many of the cities that have CCW are those cities that have lower gun crime anyway. That you try to equate gun availability/control with gun crime just shows how simple and easily led you really are.... on the other hand:

States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence. Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive:

It highlights states which have one of three gun control restrictions in place - assault weapons' bans, trigger locks, or safe storage requirements. Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48)."

[brandon]

According to Google the 2012 population of the USA was 313.9 million.

According to the DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, in 2011 there were 11,101 gun related homicides. Based on consolidated information from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, there are about 300 millions guns in the United States.

“There’s no perfect estimate of firearms in the US... “But academics and interest groups across the political spectrum broadly agree on the 300 million figure.”

So in a nation of 314 million people and 300 million guns we had 11,101 gun "related" homicides in 2011.

This is what all the hand wringing is over? That's fucking laughable. And quite revealing.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that 17,941 people die in alcohol related vehicle collisions annually.

So we have a slightly larger drunk driving problem than we do a gun related homicide problem. And the "gun control" debate is about as big an issue as drunk driving. And the majority of the gun related homicides take place in the inner cities. Exactly where the tough gun control laws are already in place. Seems that the rest of the nation doesn't need any more gun laws.

Yep, those numbers really prove we're a nation of violent gun crazies.

What a stupid and worthless thread.

LMAO :lol:

[RealJustme]

Also, many of the cities that have CCW are those cities that have lower gun crime anyway.

Dude, you made my point very well. Crime is lower in cities that have CCW and higher in cities that don't allow law abiding citizens to carry guns...it's not a theory, it's a fact.

[anon8490]

So in a nation of 314 million people and 300 million guns we had 11,101 gun "related" homicides in 2011.

And in the UK we have approximately 200,000 guns amongst a population of 60 million and 54 firearm related homicides in 2011.

Proves my point.

And just like all the other morons in the US you, Brandon, seem quite happy to accept that 11,000 homicides by guns is an "acceptable" number for your "right" to own weapons. After all, more get killed by drunk drivers so it must be ok... perhaps you could tell that to the relatives of murder victims killed in senseless and needless shootings every day in your country... what a fucking douche you are.

Dude, you made my point very well. Crime is lower in cities that have CCW and higher in cities that don't allow law abiding citizens to carry guns...it's not a theory, it's a fact.

You remain a simpleton JM. The fact is that most of those cities already had a low incidence of gun crime, that public intervention by carriers is minimal and that the effect of CCW is not a cause.

People often cite Chicago as an example of a city where gun control has no effect... but the FACT is that gun crime, whilst at unacceptable levels it has averaged 17% lower than before the controls took effect. FACT.

[Intrepid]

Anon, we threw your ilk out of here a long time ago for a very good reason. We don't do things your way and we don't care how you do them over there. If your way were better, your economy wouldn't be a failure, your population wouldn't have been mongrelized by a flood of third world, 7th century escapees, you wouldn't have to depend on the United States to bolster your defense, you would still be relevant in world affairs and you would have by now replaced your doddering old Teutonic queen and her mentally retarded son with a more efficient and modern form of government. Plus all of you over there would by now have gotten modern day dental care and wouldn't present such a horrifying sight every time you smile.
Stick to the business of your failed little nation as it slowly sinks into the ocean and don't worry what your masters over here are doing. You won't be missed when you are gone.

[johnforbes]

It really is something to walk down Oxford Street and it looks like Cairo.

The UK, instead of lecturing the US, should stick to its knitting and figure out a better immigration policy and pass its own Second Amendment.