[BilboBagend]

Sane Republicans start to cave. They desire reelection.

[Leroy]

Sane Republicans start to cave. They desire reelection.

Except that's not what the Majority of the voting age people want, they want them deported, and faced with the same immigration laws that the legal immigrants have to use.

Only crooks and anti-American types want to give criminals that have shown contempt for our country a free pass on immigration.

[RealJustme]

In a Tuesday afternoon statement, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi expressed excitement that local, State and Federal agencies will soon be able to provide several million undocumented residents with financial and housing assistance that has been denied them in the past. She ended her statement to the press with "Si se puede," or "Yes we can."

[BilboBagend]

All pure native Americans may stay. We all hope the 10 of them can make good use of this country., The rest of us must leave because we are all illegal immigrants.

ROFLMAO!

[justdoit]

I don't see a right, or workable answer here.
We kick them out Just how do we find 11-12 million people and kick them out? Willing to raise taxes for funds to kick them out? Remember the conservitive right says no more raising revenue for programs.

Leave them here- They are breaking the law. Taking a certain number of jobs, lowering the pay scale of all for their labor. I saw a program a while back, in it were newspaper ads in Mexico from American companys telling Mexicans to come on over we have a job for you and will hire you no questions asked. American companys asking people to come over the boarder legal or otherwise and they would be hired. What was done to the companys placing those ads, nothing.

[snakeoil]

Justdoit-You enumerated my concerns. I don't like the idea of leaving lawbreakers in this country and giving those lawbreakers a path to citizenship; but we can't afford a massive program to root them out and deport them. As you state, it is logistically impossible to do that.

[RealJustme]

I don't like the idea of leaving lawbreakers in this country and giving those lawbreakers a path to citizenship; but we can't afford a massive program to root them out and deport them

The answer if right in front of everyone's noses. There are are four primary reasons illegals sneak into the Country.
1- To escape criminal prosecution in their home Country
2- They can live better here on the social assistance than in their home Country.
3- For jobs
4- They need advanced medical treatment.

Solutions
1- Every illegal is finger printed and checks made for warrants in their home Countries. Those with warrants are handed over to their Country's police.
2- Stop the social assistance, escort them back to the border when they apply
3- Heavy fines and criminal prosecution of anyone hiring an illegal...it has to be enforced no exceptions.
4- Give them life saving treatement then escort them back to the border.

If those 4 simple measures were taken it would stop our illegal problem and allow us to concentrate on giving legal immigrants more assistance.

[justdoit]

Realjustme
How do we find 11-12 million illegals already in this country.
What do we do with the children of illegals born in this country, Now legal American citizens.
Fake Id's are fairly easy to get, are companys responsible to check all Id's and ss numbers?
Farmers hiring pickers to bring in the next apple crop should be fined because they unknowingly hired illegals for those two weeks of picking their orchard?

[BilboBagend]

As always, it's economics. Our irrational immigration laws create a market for illegal aliens. It started when we changed our immigration laws to eliminate the previous agreement to allow unlimited temporary guest workers from Mexico. If you control a market and restrict supply you create demand. When you make the supply illegal you create conditions for slavery and low wages.

Fixing the problem is really very simple, it's called free market capitalism. Let the market decide how much supply is needed. Give temporary work visas to all people qualified for the work. Enforce labor and safety standards.

Same problem as drugs, prostitution, and all the other irrational autocratic bully policies that conservatives demand.

[Leroy]

As always, it's economics. Our irrational immigration laws create a market for illegal aliens. It started when we changed our immigration laws to eliminate the previous agreement to allow unlimited temporary guest workers from Mexico. If you control a market and restrict supply you create demand. When you make the supply illegal you create conditions for slavery and low wages.

Fixing the problem is really very simple, it's called free market capitalism. Let the market decide how much supply is needed. Give temporary work visas to all people qualified for the work. Enforce labor and safety standards.

Same problem as drugs, prostitution, and all the other irrational autocratic bully policies that conservatives demand.

Dildo, you're lying again, or just stupid - we currently allow UNLIMITED GUEST WORKERS FROM MEXICO, we've allowed Unlimited Guest Workers from Mexico for more than a decade, almost two decades - and they don't have to return home at the end of the season/year - they can stay for up to 3 years.

The slave wages are created by unethical businesses that are not penalized for hiring known illegals, because the liberals won't go after the companies in any meaningful way.

[justdoit]

Leroy
That doesn't help finding the 11-12 million illegals already here, who pays for finding them.
And what about the American children already in this country, born here from illegal parents. What do we do with them?
What about the small contractor, is he forced to do background checks on his 4 full time employees, and then on the other 4 he hires now and then as he get a job big enough to require temperory help? Who wants more red tape for middle class businesses.
Are you willing to pay more for your food as that farmer will be paying more for labor/background checks, as will the meat packing facilitys.
Both sides of the isle created this whole fucking mess, and its going to take both sides of the isle to find a plan that is digestable. This country loves slave labor, always has and will into the future.
As for me, I guess I am willing to let those here stay here and start programs for new workers. Its not the best, its the least worst plan that in time will address the problem. We are in it to deep for a catch all plan. Took decades to get us here, will take decades to get us out.

[Leroy]

Justdoit - it's not really a problem finding them, when they don't have work they will, as we've already seen, go home. When they sign up for school, we will deport them, when they sign up for public assistance, we will deport them, when they go to a medical center we will deport them - no warning, no playing nice, just deport them at that moment, and if they have kids here, deport them too - until they are 18 (if they were illegally born here) and then they can return as legal citizens.

Stop making it possible for them to live here and they will leave or be found quickly - they are criminals, treat them as such.

Deporting them is cheaper than supporting them.

[Leroy]

As for me, I guess I am willing to let those here stay here and start programs for new workers. Its not the best, its the least worst plan that in time will address the problem. We are in it to deep for a catch all plan. Took decades to get us here, will take decades to get us out.

Why do we need another plan, we've already had a LEGAL path for Guest workers and towards Citizenship, for decades, but that's not good enough for illegals - because they are rewarded for not following the laws, not using the programs.

Don't you even use that BS about costs being lower because of Illegals, it's not true - I know companies that have used them, fired their American crews, hired "contractors" that provide laborers that don't speak ANY english, so there is no background check - that's the responsibility of the "Contractor", and they get these crews at a cheaper cost than their American workers, but, they don't lower their prices for the products/services they provide, and they raise prices just like always. If the illegals really saved consumers money, a roof would cost about 60% of what it did before the illegals were hired.

[snakeoil]

This is how Mexico treats illegal aliens:

The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam, and prove they can provide their own health care.

Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal-alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

Law-enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal-alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration-enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.

Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... lle-malkin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BilboBagend]

1) liar leroy simply lies out of his ass yet again. Also, in his usual style, a partial truth. Yes, an unlimited number of agricultural workers, and about 1,000,000 H2 visas.

[snakeoil]

I think we've found a cure for our immigration problem; just pass Mexico's immigration law here. Just about is fair play isn't it?

[BilboBagend]

Why, does Mexico have an excess demand for laborers like the U.S. has or does it have different circumstances?

Free market works best. Visas to meet U.S. excess labor market demand, rather than an artificial restriction of laborers as we now have. All employment above board and meeting regulations and normal wages.

Nothing wrong with free market economics.

[Leroy]

1) liar leroy simply lies out of his ass yet again. Also, in his usual style, a partial truth. Yes, an unlimited number of agricultural workers, and about 1,000,000 H2 visas.

Notice how dildo can only quote from talking point blogs - he can't take the time to visit the gov website that contradicts him, factually, because he would not have anything to complain about if he did.

There is no limit for H2A workers, the number permitted is only limited by the ability of the company to show that there are not enough American workers available.

Additionally: The maximum period of stay in H-2A classification is 3 years. A person who has held H-2A nonimmigrant status for a total of 3 years must depart and remain outside the United States for an uninterrupted period of 3 months before seeking readmission as an H-2A nonimmigrant.

Family of H-2A Workers: An H-2A worker’s spouse and unmarried children under 21 years of age may seek admission in H-4 nonimmigrant classification. Family members are not eligible for employment in the United States while in H-4 status.

This has been this way for more than a decade - so, again, by US Law, guest workers can come to the USA, in an unlimited number, bringing their families, and stay for up to 3 years, and they only have to return to their home country for 3 months before they can return again.

Even H1B's are not really capped - they have a stated CAP of 65,000, but the first 20,000 additional are automatically approved, as are applications for different types of business/institutions - like Guest Workers, they can bring their families - this one has a 6 year lifetime limit, but it can be waived.

And then there is the L1 program, no limits on entry, but they have a 1 or 3 year limit, and their families can come with them. "Qualified employees entering the United States to establish a new office will be allowed a maximum initial stay of one year. All other qualified employees will be allowed a maximum initial stay of three years. For all L-1B employees, requests for extension of stay may be granted in increments of up to an additional two years, until the employee has reached the maximum limit of five years."

So, again I prove that Dildo is wrong, dishonest, a liar, and is completely clueless about anything he talks about.

There you go - right from the Gov website, unlimited Guest Workers, up to 3 years generally, renewable, and it's all been in place for more than a decade.

[Leroy]

I figured that Dildo would run away from having to admit that he was wrong, again.

[snakeoil]

bilbo-The visa and guest worker system does not always work. Often, once they get here, thay refuse to go home. This happens even with the college graduates that get their degree and then get a job in the US. I read about a doctor in Utah that has been practicing here for 37 years illegally.

[BilboBagend]

47% of "illegal aliens" are people who have overstayed their visas. Either they are independently wealthy or they are productively employed, Still, if they are here illegally then there is something wrong with our system. We obviously need these people so we should work out a way to keep these people. Yes, a very few are real criminals and need to be treated as such. There would certainly be enough room in our prisons if we instituted a ratio0nal and sane morality crime policy and decriminalized morality crimes. Something which the morality bully conservative class will never allow.

[Leroy]

47% of "illegal aliens" are people who have overstayed their visas. Either they are independently wealthy or they are productively employed, Still, if they are here illegally then there is something wrong with our system. We obviously need these people so we should work out a way to keep these people. Yes, a very few are real criminals and need to be treated as such. There would certainly be enough room in our prisons if we instituted a ratio0nal and sane morality crime policy and decriminalized morality crimes. Something which the morality bully conservative class will never allow.

You've shown that you don't understand at all - "We obviously need these people..."

What you seem to be missing is that if we removed the "wealthy and productively employed" illegals, there would be more productive jobs for those legal people without them - meaning that the illegals harm the legal workforce.

A rational and sane program is one we already have, although ignored, to deport them and all of their families with them.

[BilboBagend]

LOL

Yes, you would fool yourself into believing in false zero sum games with loads of false assumption based on your bigotry.

[Leroy]

LOL

Yes, you would fool yourself into believing in false zero sum games with loads of false assumption based on your bigotry.

You are the one that presented that 47% of illegals are independently wealthy or Productively Employed, not me - are you saying you lied?

Just taking your numbers, that's MILLIONS of Citizens that would have jobs if we just deported the Criminals (Illegals).

Why do you hate citizens so much?

[BilboBagend]

Another delu8sional twist of words. What else can one expect from liar leroy.

[elklindo69]

I'm not sure what the whole neotard shit storm is all about regarding the immigration reform??????????????????

1. The current system does not work.

2, They can't just go and hunt down 10+ million people down and ship them out.

3. No matter how much republiturds moan, groan, bitch, and belly ache about the current system. It doesn't change anything.

The current proposal will require these individuals to register with the government, to conduct background checks, pay back taxes, fines, and for them to go on probation. Which will make them tax payers and they WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY FEDERAL BENEFITS.

And once they get probationary status, taxes will have to get paid, classes for English and civics will need to be completed, another back ground check will have to be completed, and finally they will have to submit a work history to prove they met all of the standards and requirements to get a green card.

Then they will have to get on to the back of the line to earn US citizenship. Period

[elklindo69]

LOL

Yes, you would fool yourself into believing in false zero sum games with loads of false assumption based on your bigotry.

You are the one that presented that 47% of illegals are independently wealthy or Productively Employed, not me - are you saying you lied?

Just taking your numbers, that's MILLIONS of Citizens that would have jobs if we just deported the Criminals (Illegals).

Why do you hate citizens so much?

Illegals are not criminals. It is not a criminal offense to cross an imaginary line in the sand. Unless you use forged documents, blow up the fence on the way in, or get into a gun battle with the border patrol, etc. Crossing the border illegally is equivalent to getting a speeding ticket. The cop writes you up and the fine is paid or litigated in court.

[Leroy]

Illegals are not criminals. It is not a criminal offense to cross an imaginary line in the sand. Unless you use forged documents, blow up the fence on the way in, or get into a gun battle with the border patrol, etc. Crossing the border illegally is equivalent to getting a speeding ticket. The cop writes you up and the fine is paid or litigated in court.

Maybe you've missed how the law really is written:

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime.

[2X8]

chirp, chirp, chirp......

[BilboBagend]

Yes, lair leroy, and what does that have to do with the simple fact that our immigration laws are ridiculous, ineffective, and impossible to work at anything other than creating havoc? Yes, we all know, when government imposes irrational false mortality based laws desired by racists and moral bullies, very bad results are guaranteed.

Simple fact, good laws need to serve people, not people serve bad laws.

Something you delusional paranoid psychotics never GET.

[Leroy]

Yes, lair leroy, and what does that have to do with the simple fact that our immigration laws are ridiculous, ineffective, and impossible to work at anything other than creating havoc? Yes, we all know, when government imposes irrational false mortality based laws desired by racists and moral bullies, very bad results are guaranteed.

Simple fact, good laws need to serve people, not people serve bad laws.

Something you delusional paranoid psychotics never GET.

What it does is show that you lied or that you're too stupid to understand the laws, the immigration process, and that you don't really care about the immigration process - everything you've said about Immigration is wrong.

The laws are fine, it's the implementation, hampered by liberals, that is the problem. If liberals would allow the laws, as already written, to be implemented fully, the system would work and cause no problem for anyone except the criminals.

What you seem to miss is that you and others (bad people) prevent good laws from being enforced/implemented, and you and others (bad people) work against those good laws so that you can complain, cry, and make shit-up to subvert the laws.

I've disproven each of your claims about the Immigration system, and yet you continue to just spew hate and misdirection.

Your comment about MORALITY BASED is actually almost correct, you want to implement YOUR TWISTED MORALITY on the legal citizens and government instead of applying the reasonable and ethical laws that are already in place - you want to reward criminals for their criminal activity, you want to encourage more people to become criminals, you show your lack of respect for legal citizens and their desire to work and support their families.... Why do you hate the legal people in this country so much?

[elklindo69]

There are some 10 million illegals in the United States, which is approximately twice the number that are currently under some form of incarceration in the WHOLE country.

Theoretically, If we were to capture and criminally prosecute all of those people where would we put them???

And would it be worth it?

Isn't the current congressional proposal which gets people back into the system and paying taxes a more reasonable solution?

[Leroy]

We would deport them not keep them, and it could be done in days, not years, and it would mean immediate job openings for the MILLIONS OF CITIZENS CURRENTLY OUT OF WORK.

[Leroy]

Why is it that liberals and other idiots that support Amnesty for illegals hate our out of work citizens so much?

[BilboBagend]

Why do morons like liar leroy always use these clearly false premises?

Because it's all they have.

[brandon]

Illegal immigration is a racial issue for liberals. Either the self-loathing type or the white hating type of racists. Simply racists though. All of them.

The FBI can do millions of background checks every month for gun buyers, but a check for citizenship would be an impossibility.

Too funny.

:lol:

[Leroy]

Why do morons like liar leroy always use these clearly false premises?

Because it's all they have.

Why is it that people like Dildo support causes that harm US Citizens, oh, yea, it's because of his and their hate.

[Leroy]

One thing that the liberals have not discussed or thought about - if Illegals are given GREEN CARDS, made Legal, since many of them are here without their families, it means that they can legally bring their families to the USA, and with a GREEN CARD or similar program, their families qualify for public assistance programs.

Just imagine, with 20 million illegals already here, it could mean as many as 60-100 million after they bring their families here to the USA - and that's a massive number of jobs and public assistance we can't afford.

[BilboBagend]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Source unknown to liar leroy and his ilk.

[Leroy]

Notice how you complete misunderstand and then misrepresent the opening paragraph. You are neither guaranteed Life, Liberty or Happiness, only that you start with them or the hope of them.

What does it say, in our constitution, that non-citizens have a right to screw citizens out of Jobs and other resources?

[BilboBagend]

liar leroy can't even understand simple English.

Let me spell it out we are ALL create equal. No ifs, ands, or buts. The rest is pragmatic administration, nothing more.

[Leroy]

liar leroy can't even understand simple English.

Let me spell it out we are ALL create equal. No ifs, ands, or buts. The rest is pragmatic administration, nothing more.

Let me spell it out for you, CREATED EQUAL does not mean, and it's obvious to people with a brain, that people STAY EQUAL no matter how much you try and cut them down.

So, how is a person born with one arm CREATED EQUAL to a person born with two arms?

In your world, you would punish all those with two arms by restricting their abilities to that of a one armed person.

All people ARE created Equal when it comes to the pursuit of Life, Liberty and Happiness, but all people are not created equally. You have to be a complete dumbass to believe that all people are created as equals.

[BilboBagend]

Yes, we know liar leroy. You would be no one if you didn't have many groups of people to fear and hate.

[Leroy]

Yes, we know liar leroy. You would be no one if you didn't have many groups of people to fear and hate.

There you go again, you know I'm right, you know you're WRONG, and so you attack and misdirect instead of admitting that you didn't understand the meaning of the quote.

Tell us again how all people are Created Equal and how that means that ALL people have a right to violate laws of any country, how it means that all people have a right to what others have worked for or bought with their own money, how all people are equally entitled to the things that law-abiding citizens have gained legally....

[BilboBagend]

LOL, liar leroy, the delusional malignant narcissistic paranoid psychotic. Sorry, liar leroy, the world does not care about your delusions.

[Leroy]

You were wrong about how the Majority of the Voting Age people feel.

You were completely wrong about Guest Worker programs.

You were wrong about the Visa program.

You stated that 47% of illegals are Independently Wealthy or Productively Employees - yet you claim that deporting the illegals won't help out-of-work legal citizens get jobs.

You make wild claims that opposing "Illegal" immigration is racist/racism - yet ignore that most people oppose Criminal Activity without race being considered.

You Ignore the negative impact illegals have on legal citizens, in fact you claim that Illegals have a positive impact on legal citizens - making you wrong again.

You've claimed, falsely, that Illegal Immigration isn't a crime, but Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code clearly states that illegal entry into the USA is a Federal Crime - so you're wrong again.

You've claimed that Immigration laws are ridiculous and ineffective and impossible, but you ignore that the laws are fine, it's that the Democrats, Liberals, and now the Entire Obama Administration refuse to enforce them as they are written - in effect granting unlawful amnesty - so, you're wrong again.

You claim that they have a MORAL right to illegally immigrate to the USA, but you're wrong again - there is nothing Immoral about the immigration laws and based on the type of work, our guest worker programs would allow 100% of them to legally work in the USA without breaking the Immigration laws. This shows that the Moral issue is with the illegals choice of breaking the law instead of following the law, which they could legally do - again, you're wrong.

Then you try and claim that this statement "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." gives them the moral and legal right to illegally immigrate to the USA, but you don't understand the context of that statement or the meaning of it - again, you're wrong.

All you've been able to do is spew your hate for the legal American citizens and make personal attacks each time you've been proven wrong, and that's typical and consistent for you and those like you.