[brandon]

Seems the Union wasn't the only ones to blame.

Just sayin'.


http://www.takepart.com/article/2012/11 ... in-general

According to WSJ, in 2011 when the company was mired in almost a billion dollar debt, then-CEO Brian Driscoll tripled his own salary, while other top executives received 35-80% raises as well.

the Washington Post reports that this week the company not only asked the bankruptcy court for permission to immediately liquidate 15,000 factory workers’ jobs, but also for permission to grant its current executive board $1.75 million in bonuses.

factory workers were recently asked to take another 8% cut in pay and a 17% cut in health benefits.

Employees also report that at the same time the most recent round of pay cuts were being proposed, executives were also handing down mandates to increase production levels beyond what was reasonable. Several told Reuters they were often threatened with factory closure by the executive board if those increases were not met.

[BilboBagend]

It's a very old story. Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

[Leroy]

It's an even older story, vilify the successful.

[snakeoil]

leroy-This is not success it is fraud. This is an old story in business; load up the company in debt, pay outrageous salaries and bonuses (throw in stock options as a sweetener to the deal) then declare bankruptcy. The supplyers, pension plans that the employees count on, investors and the state and federal government take the hit.

[RealJustme]

It's a very old story. Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The big question is...who is the goose?

[BilboBagend]

liar leroy supports all fraud. It's part of his hopeless wannabee mentality.

[Leroy]

leroy-This is not success it is fraud.

Sorry, it's legal, so it's not fraud - how come you never complain about the Unions screwing the companies, screwing the Union Members?

[brandon]

You're right Leroy I'm just villifying the successful. Everything they did was completely legal.

Check this out, while the company was billions in debt, the workers pension money was lost somewhere and the execs all got big bonuses.

All legal of course.


Hostess Brands acknowledged for the first time in a news report Monday that the company diverted workers' pension money for other company uses.

The bankrupt baker told The Wall Street Journal that money taken out of workers' paychecks, intended for their retirement funds, was used for company operations instead. Hostess, which was under different management at the time the diversions began in August 2011, said it does not know how much money it took.

"It's not a good situation to have," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn told the WSJ.

"Whatever the circumstances were, whatever those decisions were, I wasn't there," Rayburn added. As the founder and owner of Kobi Partners, a restructuring advisory firm, Rayburn was appointed acting CEO in March 2012.

Hostess Brands, which filed for bankruptcy for a second time in January, started liquidating its operations in November after the bakers' union refused to take another pay cut and went on strike. The liquidation will leave about 18,000 workers without jobs.

In November, a judge approved Hostess' plan to pay $1.8 million in bonuses to 19 executives, according to CNBC. Rayburn declined to take a bonus but also avoided a company-wide pay cut that he imposed..

[BilboBagend]

Legal fraud is still fraud. It's just fraud that has been made legal so people in power can commit fraud. You do know that wealthy people in positions of power write the laws to allow them to commit what would otherwise be clear crimes? or are you really that ... .

[BilboBagend]

Oh, sorry, you are just that ... .

[Leroy]

Brandon, you can't fault them, as there was more than one group that owned the company during several periods, but, if you really gave a shit you would be vilifying the legislators that created the laws/regulations that created this environment. It wasn't the companies that are the problem, it's the legislators and regulators that created the environment that permits this - target the source of the problem, not the symptoms.

[BilboBagend]

I agree with liar leroy. Legislators, mostly Republican with many Democrats. Deregulation by weakening laws. The stated goal of the Republican Party.

The solution. Get rid of the current maniac Republicans and get a real opposition to the Democrats.

[BilboBagend]

Not long ago the Republican Party had about 1/3rd of the black vote. Then the Republican Party embraced the "Southern Strategy" and the bigots, the racists, the religious fanatics. Thus, the Republican Party started it's spin into the Abyss and it's race to the radical reactionary right. They have almost no right left to go. Even those who were willing to embrace this strategy realize they have been left out of the power structure and given the party over to the worst of America.

[Leroy]

You almost had it, but you keep showing your deep seated hate and irrational zealotry Dildo.

[BilboBagend]

No, that's only you reflecting your values and emotions on others. My disdain for you is simply my disdain for you, your lack of any human values, honesty, or honor. No the general condition you so like to lie about.

[brandon]

Leroy, I realize you and others here never fault any management, executives or owners. The successful as you call them. That was the reason I posted this thread. After all the union bullshit you guys posted, to see what your responses would be. You stayed true to form. And I do fault the unions also, and the politicians who allow this. You seem to be the one with the blind spot.

From JM's thread

I have no sympathy for the striking workers, ~ Leroy

it doesn't matter of the CEO makes 50,000,000,000 and wants concessions from the workers, ~ Leroy

[BilboBagend]

Every success and every failure of a corporation is due to executive decisions. Usually prometed by greed and short term thinking in support of short term greed.

All the outstanding retirements cost of unions was die to failure by executives to carry out their fiduciary responsibility and put away the proper funds for retirement. Then, later, retirement payments needed to be taken out of operating revenue.

At the big scale overarching management level it's all the executives. If it's mid level management screwing up, the executives should and do correct it.

[Leroy]

Leroy, I realize you and others here never fault any management, executives or owners. The successful as you call them. That was the reason I posted this thread. After all the union bullshit you guys posted, to see what your responses would be. You stayed true to form. And I do fault the unions also, and the politicians who allow this. You seem to be the one with the blind spot.

From JM's thread

I have no sympathy for the striking workers, ~ Leroy

it doesn't matter of the CEO makes 50,000,000,000 and wants concessions from the workers, ~ Leroy

Brandon, I've been on both sides, and I find that when times are good, when the union workers are happy, they are less productive and screwing the company for all they can get, in general. I also know that the executives drive more and more sales/growth to allow them to get higher and higher pay. I also know that some companies buy companies to take them apart and sell them off - but, in almost every case, those same companies that were bought were already going to fail, screwing everyone in the process, and not just the workers/executives, the community around the business also.

You've taken my statements out of context and, in typical lib fashion, tried to use them as blanket statements for all cases. I expected better from you, but you've show that you are not really interested in discussion by doing the snippet out of context crap.

I know that CEO's can be greedy, but, you also have to admit that the employees can be just as greedy, and that if they had accepted the offer, like the two other unions did, that all three unions would be working now. Maybe you should go back and look at what the Union's were fighting over, not just the few liberal talking points, but, maybe you missed how they would not agree to let drivers deliver more than one product.... Again, the workers could be working, making a living, but now they are living off our backs, and the net result is that the only people that will benefit are the owners that had recently bought the company and the companies that will buy the hostess recipe's to start selling under their company brands.

[brandon]

You are unbelievable Leroy. That money was stolen from those workers and pocketed by those executives. And that company was intentionally destroyed by those executives. And you know it. It's criminal and they should be in jail. I'm surprised that your man Mitt wasn't involved.

What happened to all the ethics and honor you're always posting about? They don't apply to these people?

One more , just so you might hear yourself.

Brandon, you can't fault them,.....~ Leroy

UFB.

[Leroy]

You are unbelievable Leroy. That money was stolen from those workers and pocketed by those executives. And that company was intentionally destroyed by those executives. And you know it. It's criminal and they should be in jail. I'm surprised that your man Mitt wasn't involved.

What happened to all the ethics and honor you're always posting about? They don't apply to these people?

One more , just so you might hear yourself.

Brandon, you can't fault them,.....~ Leroy

UFB.

What's unbelievable is that you call something illegal that was clearly legal. You don't blame the right people, and you ignore that two of the three unions had already agreed to accept the new contract.

[Shimmer]

One thought. The Judge overseeing the bankruptcy had to approve those bonus's for them to be paid and he did. Sitting in a position to know everything that was going on with the company, he thought it reasonable to do so.

[Leroy]

One thought. The Judge overseeing the bankruptcy had to approve those bonus's for them to be paid and he did. Sitting in a position to know everything that was going on with the company, he thought it reasonable to do so.

Shimmer, don't report that on this board, the libs will go nuts and claim the judge was corrupt and should be disbarred.

[markjean59]

HEY LEROY I AM NOT A LIBEREL AND I THINK THE JUDGE SHOULD BE DISBARRED AND SUED. HE IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUT FOR EVERYBODY NOT JUST THE EXECUTIVES.

[Leroy]

HEY LEROY I AM NOT A LIBEREL AND I THINK THE JUDGE SHOULD BE DISBARRED AND SUED. HE IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUT FOR EVERYBODY NOT JUST THE EXECUTIVES.

Mark - the problem is that a ruling/court is not about Social Justice, it's about LAW, and the law finds that there is nothing illegal about what they did, so it has no business blocking those bonuses.

Try and remember, Justice is blind, it is SUPPOSED to apply the exact letter of the law to every case, it's when liberal thinking or "Social Justice" crap gets involved that the law is perverted - if you don't like that they got money, get the laws changed.