[BilboBagend]

Well, there you have it. The paranoid NRA solution to gun violence. Create an armed police state.

BTW: Just the kind of state that is guaranteed to eventually disarm the general population and impose autocratic tyranny on the population.

[RealJustme]

Well, there you have it. The paranoid NRA solution to gun violence. Create an armed police state

This will clear it up for you. Read and learn.

http://forums.voyeurweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3954

[DarknLadyJedi]

Well, I suppose that the NRA could have said that letting teacher's carry concealed firearms would work.

But the last time a vice principal ran out to his car to get his gun there were people screaming that he needed to be fired, arrested and thrown in prison because he had a gun in his car.

[BilboBagend]

50% of all guns in the world are owned by 5% of the people, us.

We have a clear problem with a tendency towards violence and gun ownership completely out of line with all other humans in the world.

The solution, more guns and more paranoia???? No on your life. Just an increase in the problem.

[BilboBagend]

The slums of Mumbai, India, know by Americans for their extreme poverty and violence are safer, even for Americans, than any city in the United States.

Guns aren't the answer.

Taking down the culture of violence and American Imperialism through violence is the answer. Americans worship violence, even in their conservative fundamentalist churches.

[RealJustme]

Guns aren't the answer.

Finally Bilbo gets it. You can't control violence by taking away guns from good people. Our children are growing up with a culture of violence and we have some really sick people out there that need to be identified and dealth with. On top of that we need to start enforcing the gun laws, take the damn guns away from the felons, start the house to searchs of every felon. We also need to treat our children as valuable assets and insure we're providing proper protection against bad people with guns.

[BilboBagend]

The moron persists in his idiocy and his distortions. What can one say.

[2X8]

The moron persists in his idiocy and his distortions. What can one say.

So, Dildo, do you think it would be a good idea to remove armed guards from banks, or armored trucks?

Is there any location where you would allow armed guards in Liberalville?

[elklindo69]

The NRA is a gun lobbying organization. So were people expecting them to say that guns should be taken off the streets? Of course they want more people to be armed, they are just doubling down on their ideology.

OK so now they propose armed guards in schools. What will it be next? Hospitals? Churches? Libraries? Little League ball games?

When does the lunacy end???

[elklindo69]

Guns aren't the answer.

Finally Bilbo gets it. You can't control violence by taking away guns from good people. Our children are growing up with a culture of violence and we have some really sick people out there that need to be identified and dealth with. On top of that we need to start enforcing the gun laws, take the damn guns away from the felons, start the house to searchs of every felon. We also need to treat our children as valuable assets and insure we're providing proper protection against bad people with guns.

Define a good person?

Define a bad person?

Or think of it from a different perspective, what percentage of women are killed by their husbands/boyfriends/family members/etc (good people) vs. the percentage of women who are killed by complete strangers (bad people).

[DarknLadyJedi]

Really?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... tal-crimes

And you think that is safer than any city in the US?

Most hospitals already have armed guards.

And if you want to talk about homicide and domestic violence than you should really check your facts.

Most domestic violence occurs without a weapon, it is most often done as bare hand attacks, next most common is to use common items, belts, hairbrushes ect.

The most common item used by the victim in order to successfully defend themselves from an attacker in a domestic violence attack is a firearm.

This is because the victim in a domestic violence situation is almost always smaller and weaker than the aggressor. A firearm allows them to be the equal of their attacker instead of being, yet again, their victim.

Firearms are used an estimated 1,000,000 times a year in defensive fashion to prevent crimes based on DOJ reports. That means firearms are used by citizens to stop more crimes than there are police officers in the entire country each year.

The most common form of robbery in the US is strong arm robbery. A weaponless attacker forces a weaker victim to surrender their property because they choose targets that can not defend themselves from the strong.

There were over 83 THOUSAND forced rapes reported last year alone. Very rarely is a rape victim as strong as their opponent. Even factoring in the number of juveniles raped that still gives us a reported figure of about 50 THOUSAND adults raped last year.

[unknownhooligan]

I agree with the NRA. It is only logical to protect our children. Look at the news. All the mass killings in the three places you cannot legally carry a gun. The schools, the churches and government buildings.
Of course, as has already been mentioned, government buildings and hospitol usually have armed guards. Just like banks, if you have something precious, you need someone with a gun to protect it.

[RealJustme]

I agree with the NRA. It is only logical to protect our children.

Obamabots are going to go off on you. Their ideology trumps the safety of children, if children must die to further the liberal agenda then so be it as far as their concerned. Hell they'll shut down school if it'll further their cause.

[unknownhooligan]

I can take it. In 02 I posted a pic of me wearing my engineer boots, with a joint in one hand and my Gloc in the other. Shit hit the fan then too. So, I changed my profile pic to one of the gun, a bag of medical grade and my good ole ass kickin, fag stompin boots. Fuggem if they can't take a joke.

[2X8]

Lets see now...

Didn't Bill Clinton fund armed guards in schools?

Dumocrats must have thought it was a good idea then.

[DarknLadyJedi]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-sa ... 52256.html


When this was recommended by Clinton the Democrats & Republicans supported it.

When this was recommended by the NRA Republicans still support it and Democrats hate it.

Seems for the Democrats it's not about real policy but about their policy.

[unknownhooligan]

Dayum, that's gonna leave a mark. Especially tasty in light of the recent selection of John "for before he was against it" Kerry to SOS.

[WickedWonder]

Our schools have had armed guards for several years. We live in a small quiet town and it is not in a crime ridden area.

Our children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews look up to these guards. When did the NRA say to flaunt the guns the armed guards have? They didn't. Our guards wear suites just as the principals do. They sit a a desk and monitor the front doors. You wouldn't even know they were armed to look at them. Why did our schools do this years ago? Not because of any gun toting individual. Because long before these shootings began, We the parents asked for our loved ones to be protected in case. Our schools also promotes NRA backed safe firearm classes just as we Promote Red Cross's, CPR, Safe swimming and other classes. Our schools sponsors US Coast Guard safe boating classes. Oh ya, They also promote respect for others!

Why would this insight panic to anyone? Only those whom choose to be against firearms are the ones whom fear themselves.

[snakeoil]

Arm the teachers? Why don't we go one better; give each 1st grader an AK-47. That makes about as much sense!

[BilboBagend]

An armed military guard in each class room, every retail store. Every church should have a militia at each service and 24 hours guards to make sure no one plants a bomb off hours.

The employment problem should be cured as about 20% of the population will be employed as guards. There should be great peace as the guards intimidate the population, steal their cash and credit cards, and occasionally rape whoever they want. It will be a neat orderly society with little crime caused by the cowering population. It's all been done before. We know the result of a militarized society.

[RealJustme]

An armed military guard in each class room, every retail store. Every church should have a militia at each service and 24 hours guards to make sure no one plants a bomb off hours.

That would be going way over board, by the way who is calling for that? Most are just calling for an armed guard at each school to protect our children... not each classroom, that's a lie started by Obamabots. :lol:

[DarknLadyJedi]

Arm the teachers? Why don't we go one better; give each 1st grader an AK-47. That makes about as much sense!

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times) speaking at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon, when asked by a girl how to react when a shooter takes aim at a classmate

[BilboBagend]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755883/ns ... /#50276132

[DarknLadyJedi]

Yes, a liberal news agency, one who supported Clinton when he wanted to put armed police in schools, is now outraged because the NRA agrees with Clinton.

How dare a right wing organization like the NRA agree with Clinton.

How dare they try and belittle his accomplishments and goals by agreeing with him.

[elklindo69]

The logistics of having armed law enforcement officers in all of the schools in the nation don't work out, unless we are willing to fork over billions more in tax payer dollars to train and employee additional people.

Now since the NRA sees that armed personnel patrol; stadiums, banks, airports, and other public venues, then the next logical progression would be to patrol the schools. But their logic is flawed because what would be the next "logical" progression to protect children? Little League ball games, daycare centers, libraries, pools, kiddie parks, and so on? So where would the line be drawn to protect the children from "insane killers" roaming the communities with assault weapons? According to the NRA's logic armed personnel would be patrolling all open areas protecting everybody from the Lanza's of the world.

And I suppose that the NRA believes that their are legions of janitors, secretaries, PE coaches, guidance councilors, and all other assorted types of patriotic americans, aka, "good guys" with guns would will go out and work with school administrators to create and implement detailed security schemes for the nearly 100,000 schools throughout the nation. The NRA said it themselves "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

But now ask yourself this, will all of these measures increase school safety? When you really think about it, if the only security against a gun is having a gun, then we would all have guns. It's that simple, according to the logic of the NRA, right? But realistically the world is not that simple. To become a police officer, you need to take competitive examinations to first get selected, then extensive background checks, psychological screening, physical exams, completion of police academy training, and a probationary period where they patrol with a veteran patrol officer as a double check.

But wait, the NRA thinks that teachers, janitors, football coaches are up to it. Just give the "good guy" a gun, and every thing should be OK. They have they training to spot bad guys, disarm them, and are quick on the draw to blow away the bad guys in a shooting while leaving the children unharmed?

So I kind of find it hard to believe that the NRA's solution is logical. And for them to blame video games, violent porno, music videos, gun free school zones sounds pretty mind boggling...

Perhaps a reasonable infrastructure can be created to keep firearms out of the wrong hands. I can see people having handguns for home protection or single shot bolt action rifles for hunting (I have one in my basement safe), but military style weapons should not be available for use in the general public.

[BilboBagend]

The simple reality is that to be effective in preventing mass gun murder therew would need to be highly trained armed police at each and every classroom, mall store, church, retail outlet, gas station, etc. Navy seal teams wouyld need to be available in every small little town. We would have to becoame a complete police state.

Even the NRA's simple little proposal of one armed guard at each school would cost 100B dollars a year. Money which the NRA and their conservative buddies would never be allowed to be allocated.

So, The NRA proposal, disingenuous, ineffective, expensive, and im[possible to implement because of conservatives cost cutting.

[BilboBagend]

BTW:

Just a note on a point of information.

The current crop of Republicans and Conservatives have finally taken the social sting completely out of the term "Liberal". The moronic wackos in charge of the Conservative movement have proven themselves to be completely out of touch with some very important things, the American people, any form of physical reality, any form of psychological reality, a form of rational observable truth, any form of benevolence. Yet, they are completely in touch with the desires of the most autocratic and self centered uber-wealthy of the world.

[RealJustme]

Even the NRA's simple little proposal of one armed guard at each school would cost 100B dollars a year. Money which the NRA and their conservative buddies would never be allowed to be allocated.

Every public school in America has millions in waste through mismanagement and fraud. I would suggest that the armed guard at each school receive fraud training so they can play a dual role, while not protecting the children they can actively be reviewing work schedules, purchases, determine what each school employee does and if they needed, removing dead teachers from the active payrolls, plus attempt to track down those thousands of teachers in every State on the payrolls that no one has ever seen...or at least into who's bank accounts those billions of dollars in fraud are going to. So hiring armed guards with dual roles as fraud investigators in every school would actually end up saving us billions, which in turn could be used to better the children's education while keeping them safe.

[elklindo69]

Even the NRA's simple little proposal of one armed guard at each school would cost 100B dollars a year. Money which the NRA and their conservative buddies would never be allowed to be allocated.

Every public school in America has millions in waste through mismanagement and fraud. I would suggest that the armed guard at each school receive fraud training so they can play a dual role, while not protecting the children they can actively be reviewing work schedules, purchases, determine what each school employee does and if they needed, removing dead teachers from the active payrolls, plus attempt to track down those thousands of teachers in every State on the payrolls that no one has ever seen...or at least into who's bank accounts those billions of dollars in fraud are going to. So hiring armed guards with dual roles as fraud investigators in every school would actually end up saving us billions, which in turn could be used to better the children's education while keeping them safe.

Red Herring....

You would need at least hundreds of thousands, perhaps one million new law enforcement agents to cover the approximately 100,000 schools.

Maybe the conservatives can arm the Joe the Plumber's of the nation to work as school custodians...

[Shimmer]

First of all it would cost around $5 billion a year to put a guard in every school not $100 billion so let's keep that part real.

Secondly we do live in a society that puts no value on human life. Just in the past three weeks I've read in the paper of someone getting killed over a pork chop, and over a pizza. We have around 1000 brutal executions every single day in our country with no chance of appeal just in the name of choice, we have people getting into fights in WalMart even, over saving a few bucks on an item.

The bad part of it all is that all of that hate and hostility emanates from the President on down so it's well ingrained. He talks of revenge on half the population, steers the discussion to make success evil in the eyes of many pitting people against people and helps perpetuate the idea that you have to hate those with different ideas or values than yourself calling them racists and bigots.

Liberals like to say that violent movies, TV shows and even video games that make it a sport to kill people have no effect on those exposed to them or the general civility of people as a whole yet at the same time we have companies paying $3.8 million bucks for a 30 second commercial during the Superbowl because they know the power of the media to induce people go out and buy their products.

People in this country are encouraged to be free to not take any responsibility for their actions or inaction that cause a bad outcome and they expect esteem and rewards when they have done nothing to earn either. This is all part of the national mindset that breeds people who will do such nefarious deeds as shooting up known soft targets like schools and malls, both for their revenge on society and to make a name for themselves.

Israel has armed teachers in every school and on every school outing and even in such a hostile environment they no longer have direct attacks on schools or school kids because they are no longer soft targets.

The real thing we need to do to address the problem is get back to a place where people take responsibility for their actions, where civility is the main function within society and where people are willing to be a part of the solution rather then perpetuating the problem. Where every day common decency prevails over hate, contempt and the fuck you attitude that's so common especially among our youth and lower income people.

[RealJustme]

The real thing we need to do to address the problem is get back to a place where people take responsibility for their actions, where civility is the main function within society and where people are willing to be a part of the solution rather then perpetuating the problem. Where every day common decency prevails over hate, contempt and the fuck you attitude that's so common especially among our youth and lower income people.

If you were running for office you would have my vote.

Also when it comes to providing protection to our most valuable assets, our children, all of sudden liberals are against spending???

[BilboBagend]

The key to many of the conservatives delusions, "get back to". Yes, get back to times that never existed beyond the imagination of the delusional.

[BilboBagend]

Sorry, or the bigotry of the malignant self centered little dictators and their racist dupes.

[RealJustme]

Worth repeating. When it comes to providing protection to our most valuable asset, our children, all of sudden liberals are against spending???

[Shimmer]

Dildo, I grew up in the suburbs of Washington DC. Yes there were crimes and criminals back then but people were generally more civilized, and actually treated others with dignity and respect. You heard Yes Sir, and Yes Mam, people opened doors for each other and you almost never heard foul language in places like shops, and stores. People knew how to respect the rights of others and how to behave in public. Somehow those things are worth saving to me no matter how far we go into the future.

[BilboBagend]

Bullshit.

People were more separated and forceably so. Fewer people had rights and more were repressed.

It was only apparently more respectful and peaceful because of the high degree of censorship and repression, and then only among the few who met the standard of being civilized and repressed, white people.

The rest is pure bullshit.

[RealJustme]

People were more separated and forceably so. Fewer people had rights and more were repressed.

Bullshit. Families were more close, children had two parents, everyone called a Christmas tree a Christmas tree, neighbors helped neighbors. If someone saw a stranger needing help, they took the time to help them without a second thought about it. Children were taught respect for everyone and family values was important.

Now we have liberals who despise family values and traditional familes, they spread hate and division and attempt to repress those who don't share their warped values. Liberals will march in angry crowds damaging property and threatening violence if they don't get their way while doing nothing to contribute to a solution. Liberals will be the first in line for handouts but the last to volunteer to do the handing out. They always have their hands out stretched to others, but they're not helping hands, they demanding hands. Is there any wonder I have no respect or tolerance for liberals?

[Leroy]

If the president, a worthless person, has armed protection, if our Banks and Money stores have armed protection, if our actors and politicians have armed protection, why don't we protect our most valuable resource (children) with the same level of concern for their lives?

[Shimmer]

Leroy we don't protect our children as well as our money because as a society the children are less important, plain and simple.

[elklindo69]

The only way I could see a firearm entering a school is if it was carried by a police officer.

It's a really really really bad idea for school officials who have no law enforcement training to carry a handgun. There is an incredible liability for the school district. I don't even want to think what would happen if a teacher's weapon were to accidentally discharge and injure a student...

[Leroy]

Dildo just doesn't get it - you don't need to "PUT" armed anything, you just need to stop creating gun-free zones - called VICTIM ZONES. If you let good people carry, if they choose, you won't see anywhere near as much violent gun crime.

The worst places for gun crimes in our country are Gun-Free Zones and areas will oppressive gun-control laws/regulations.

[elklindo69]

Dildo just doesn't get it - you don't need to "PUT" armed anything, you just need to stop creating gun-free zones - called VICTIM ZONES. If you let good people carry, if they choose, you won't see anywhere near as much violent gun crime.

The worst places for gun crimes in our country are Gun-Free Zones and areas will oppressive gun-control laws/regulations.

Define good people?

What exactly is a good person? What are the standards and requirement for someone to be categorized as a "good person?"

NRA catch phrases, slogans, and cliches will not solve the problem. This sort of simpleton thinking is a part of the problem.

A good person will not stop or prevent a person from committing a crime. Only a police officer who specifically is trained and experienced in law enforcement techniques can accomplish this. Now unless if someone can prove that civilians have the equivalent training that police officers have received. Then civilians in schools have no business being armed...

[RealJustme]

Define good people?

What exactly is a good person? What are the standards and requirement for someone to be categorized as a "good person?"

Someone who is tolerant of how other live their lifes. Someone who always reaches out to help others. Someone who believes in carrying their own weight. Someone who doesn't victimize others. Someone who donates time and mone for the needy, in short, someone who "isn't" a liberal.

[Leroy]

A good person will not stop or prevent a person from committing a crime. Only a police officer who specifically is trained and experienced in law enforcement techniques can accomplish this. Now unless if someone can prove that civilians have the equivalent training that police officers have received. Then civilians in schools have no business being armed...

Are you a complete loon?

Every day, all across this country, "Good People" stop criminals, sometimes the good people use guns to stop criminals, and we're talking about Citizens, not police.

Do you really think police stop crimes? BULL SHIT - if Police Stopped crimes we would have almost none, but police REACT TO CRIMES. Police are almost NEVER present at the onset of a crime, hell, most times police are not even present when the crime is completed.

Chew on this:

"
Researchers at the Cato Institute have reviewed eight years worth of news reports about shooting in self-defense and conclude, "the vast majority of gun owners are ethical and competent, and tens of thousands of crimes are prevented each year by ordinary citizens with guns."

The libertarian Washington, D.C. think tank has released "Tough Targets: When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens," just a few days after Wisconsin's first instance of a concealed carry permit holder shooting at an armed robber, at a Milwaukee grocery store. In fact, the incident is already on the Cato Institute's interactive map that accompanies the report.

The report's authors argue that because only when a citizen actually shoots a criminal subject does the incident make the news, there are likely thousands of times when the mere display of a legal weapon stops a crime from happening. But the study also acknowledges that prior estimates range widely, from less than a million to more than 2 million a year.

So the authors instead turn to about 5,000 news reports of defensive gun use to draw conclusions about the actors, their circumstances, motivations and outcomes. While concealed carry proponents will likely see the collection as a kind of greatest hits of the 2nd Amendment, there are are few counter-examples.

"Not every defensive gun use ends well— the data set identifies 36 incidents in which a defender was killed," the report states.

Analysis and history accounts for about a third of the 58-page report, while short summaries of defensive shooting makes up the rest.
"