[snakeoil]

On the ballot in Maryland is a vote to allow a casino in Maryland. It is being sold as providing 500 full-time jobs and hundreds of construction jobs, providing money for schools (this never happens-Md. appropriated $380 million from the school trust fund recently,) and increased tax revenue for the state. My take is that the money spent at casinos is money that would otherwise be spent on items made in our factories, sold in our stores, etc. Many who do gamble can ill-afford it and are putting themselves and their family in financial jeopardy. The major beneficiaries of the profits would be a few wealthy investors. The casinos would require a huge chuck of government resources such as police, fire protection, our state justice system, infrastructure that has to be upgraded to service the casino, utility upgrades, water and sewage upgrades, etc. the casino is being offered huge tax breaks to attact them to Maryland. Recent TV ads are pitting Maryland against that villain that wants to keep all of the gambling revenue for themselves; West Virginia. Personally, since I don't gamble, I don't care if any gambling places open or not. My inclination is to vote against this measure on the ballot. I'm curious as to how our contributors feel about this.

[justdoit]

In my opinion
If the people don't gamble in your town they will take their money where they can gamble. Your town loses that income. As far as infastructure, any industry requires the same so thats a wash.
Certain people are going to gamble whether they can afford it or not. Ya just can't delegate stupid. If they want to smoke, they will, if they want to drink, they will, and if they want to gamble they will. Its just a matter of where...
In this "land of the free", we should have that right", stupid or otherwise.
I do have a problem as to where the money goes, and if I were to vote no it would be from that argument only.

[RealJustme]

I would vote no to Casinos. The majority of the people giving their money way at the Casinos are those who can least afford it, it's a disease that Casinos full take advantage of. Walk into a Casino, you see mostly eldery people playing their social security money in hopes of getting rich quick but in the end the Casinos always win. Caninos pray on the poor and suck the blood from them, in turn society pays and the elderly are forced to eat cat food...I'd vote no!

[elklindo69]

I personally think it's stupid to gamble.

And the lotto is just an idiot's tax.

Both are immoral but I don't think they should be banned. If you want to piss your money away, that's your business.

[RealJustme]

Both are immoral but I don't think they should be banned. If you want to piss your money away, that's your business.

The question isn't whether to ban Casinos or not, it's about voting whether to build another one or not. I would vote no.

[justdoit]

In this country why do we feel the need to deny people their "prusuit of happiness". The purchace of a weapon, donating to a political candiate or cause, donate to the church of choice, buying a new car, in the eyes of many is pissing their money away also.. So who are we to tell one what they can or cannot do with their money. It's the freedom in this country to choose our particular "prusuit of happiness". Whether you or I feel they can afford it or not, until they have been proven to be incompetent, it's their money, and their choice.
Once that money goes to the canino, how its distributed to the state for that right to have said casino, then we the people should have a say. We are the state.

[RealJustme]

So who are we to tell one what they can or cannot do with their money. It's the freedom in this country to choose our particular "prusuit of happiness". Whether you or I feel they can afford it or not, until they have been proven to be incompetent, it's their money, and their choice.

Are you saying I have to give up my freedom to vote no to a new Casino, that I have no choice?

[justdoit]

I'm saying why do you feel you have the right to deny ones choice of what they do with their personal property (money). I have no use for smokers, should we outlaw cigs in my town ? I don't drink as I did in my youth, should we outlaw liguor in my town, I'm not catholic should we.... But we should deny a casino as there are those that abuse them. Yep you can vote no, its your right, but then there are those that might want to deny you what you consider your personal "prusuit of happiness" some day.

[RealJustme]

Yep you can vote no, its your right, but then there are those that might want to deny you what you consider your personal "prusuit of happiness" some day.

Voters already did that when they elected Obama but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[snakeoil]

Great discussion folks! What's really pissing me off about this casino is the massive tax breaks that the state is giving to the billionaire real estate developer to build the casino. He could well afford to build it without tax breaks but someone feels we have to make him richer.

[RealJustme]

What's really pissing me off about this casino is the massive tax breaks that the state is giving to the billionaire real estate developer to build the casino

Not only will there be tax breaks for the developer, the whole operation will be tax exempt since it'll be American Indian run.

[justdoit]

Justme
Not sure that is true. Ya might want to check on that statement. I believe there is tax revenue already generated from existing casino's and will have more tax generated from proposed casino's.

[RealJustme]

Not sure that is true. Ya might want to check on that statement. I believe there is tax revenue already generated from existing casino's and will have more tax generated from proposed casino's

What we've seen our area are developers getting tax credits to build the Casinos with promises of "jobs" and "tax revenue" only to have the Casino turned over to an American Indian tribe then our law makers declaring the property "reservations" then tax exempt. So beware in any Democrat ran State, American indians and unions own your leaders.

tribes have invested even more heavily in lobbying Congress. In 2000 alone they spent $20 million lobbying on such issues as preserving the tax-free status of casinos, expanding gaming operations and protecting Indian sovereign immunity, which allows them to avoid regulations imposed on other businesses. ...86% of there donations go to Democrats and amounted to $8.6 million.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article

[justdoit]

realjustme
Where did this happen?

[RealJustme]

Where did this happen?

It's happened in several States. Even the liberal LA Times feels tax exempt Casinos aren't fair.

SACRAMENTO — Deron Marquez, 33, drives a Mercedes coupe valued at more than $96,000 and oversees a high-profit business that generates tens of millions of dollars a year.

State and local authorities collect no tax on the business' profits or property, and for one of the two years he has owned his Mercedes-Benz, Marquez paid no vehicle license fee, state records show. By law, Marquez, like many Native Americans, didn't have to do so.
As chairman of the San Manuel Band of Mission Indians, he is one of roughly 26,000 Native Americans enrolled in the 53 California tribes that own casinos. Although some have grown wealthy on gambling profits, they need not pay many taxes shouldered by other Californians.

While other motorists brace for their license fees to triple, many Indians can shrug. If lawmakers raise the sales tax, many Native Americans will be unaffected. And it would be no big deal if lawmakers raised the state income tax on the richest Californians, as Gov. Gray Davis suggested early this year.

Davis, struggling to fill the state's $38-billion budget hole, raised the issue of taxes and tribes in January by proposing that an expansion of Indian gambling

"No state tax of any kind applies to a tribe unless Congress expressly allows it," said lawyer Art Bunce, who represents the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians, owners of a casino in downtown Palm Springs and one off Interstate 10.

That dismays activists and local officials most affected by the traffic, noise and demands on public services that accompany casinos and the crowds they draw, as well as some Capitol denizens alarmed by the depth of the state's financial morass.

"Major business making major money ought to be paying taxes," said Lenny Goldberg, a lobbyist and head of the labor-backed California Tax Reform Assn., a nonprofit group that advocates higher taxes as a way to solve the state's yawning budget gap.

Tribes also are exempt from many smaller fees. Four tribes, for example, offer off-track wagering on horse races, but don't pay a fee levied on 30 satellite betting establishments. That saved those tribes $1.1 million in 2002, according to the California Horse Racing Board. The fee helps support county fairs and expositions.

* Property taxes don't apply to reservations. Some tribes have built sizable houses for their members; if the homes are on reservations, the property is not taxed. And there are no property taxes on casinos -- though there could be an exception.

In Madera County, the Chukchansi tribe and its management firm, Cascade Entertainment Group of Sacramento, built a $200-million casino-hotel on land next to their 29 tax-exempt acres. The 1,800-slot-machine casino and 192-room hotel opened last month in the Sierra foothills 30 miles from Yosemite National Park.

[BilboBagend]

It'stime for government to be out of the morality business. It's time to effectively regulate, mediate, and treat.

[RealJustme]

It'stime for government to be out of the morality business

Exactly, they shouldn't be giving Casinos tax breaks just because they're run by Native Americans, Government has no business being in the morality business.

Just as the Government should stay out the abortion business, the Government don't have the moral grounds to order Americans to pay for abortions for others, stay out of women's affairs, their bodies are theirs to do what they want to it.

[BilboBagend]

Should government yet against unilaterally refute it's treaties with independent nations?

[RealJustme]

Should government yet against unilaterally refute it's treaties with independent nations?

If they're an independent nation why are they receiving benefits as American citizens? That was easy. :lol:

[BilboBagend]

Life, reality, and reason are so beyond anything justupid can handle. Pathetic.

Yes, the world is complex. Our relationships are complex. Yes, we do did ourselves into very comp-0lex holes. However, the justupid view is worthless. A caase of any possible justupid cure being far worse than the disease, filled with abuse of rights and economic failure.

[RealJustme]

If they're an independent nation why are they receiving benefits as American citizens? Notice they ignore the simple question :lol:

[snakeoil]

UPDATE; The casinos won!

[RealJustme]

UPDATE; The casinos won!

Bunch of liberals voting for feel good shit and supporting unions at the expense of working Americans...oh Obama also won, so we all lose.

[BilboBagend]

No, we ignore disingenuous morons incapable and unwiulling to msker contact with the real work, like justuoid.

Like faux news just reporting their hope that Obama learned his lesson by winning this election and will moderate his views (that is become a dishonest radical reactionary working to harm all the American people).

[RealJustme]

No, we ignore disingenuous morons incapable and unwiulling to msker contact with the real work, like justuoid.

Like faux news just reporting their hope that Obama learned his lesson by winning this election and will moderate his views (that is become a dishonest radical reactionary working to harm all the American people).

Dude take a chill pill, Obama won! I can imagine your frothing at the mouth anger had Romney won. Peace, love, why can't we all get along?:lol:

[BilboBagend]

Justupid thinks it's freedom to vote to deny another person their freedom. No, that is just tyranny.

Any restriction on another person's freedom should be allowed only when their is outstanding reason to protect another much more important freedom. Like, murder should be illegal because it impinges on a much more important freedom.

[RealJustme]

Justupid thinks it's freedom to vote to deny another person their freedom. No, that is just tyranny.

So you didn't vote for Obama?

[Shimmer]

Casinos do have a social cost to society but they also have a financial benefit to the community they are located in due to tourism. The tax breaks to get them to build there are due to competition with other states looking to get their business as well. Truth be told, most large companies or even mid sized companies get tax breaks for moving to a new state, because of the total positive economic impact they have on the state and local economy. Sometimes it takes a few years to start getting all the direct tax money from the new operation, but the increases from new workers living in new housing and increased business to retail food and other entertainment venues starts nearly immediately.

[BilboBagend]

True enough, but such tax breaks are part of the problem. They obviate free market competition. They place business in places where it would be less optimal than if such tax breaks were not allowed. They modify the markets and provide anti-free market pressures on the markets.

[Shimmer]

I recently worked for a company that moved out of North Carolina to Florida due to huge tax breaks and incentives given to them by the state. Four other states lost out because they didn't provide enough incentives to get our company. Once there they hired a ton of new people to comply with their agreements with the state but once the mandatory periods were passed they started laying people off by the dozens. Now they only have about two thirds of the people they originally relocated with and nearly 100% of the new hires are gone. To the layman it looked like they were riding the line right on the verge of fraud but perhaps they never went over it. At any rate, it's an example of a big company getting incentives to move into a state at great cost to the citizens of the state with no permanent benefit. Probably in a couple more years when all the incentives run out, they will either sell off the company or move again.

[RealJustme]

To the layman it looked like they were riding the line right on the verge of fraud but perhaps they never went over it. At any rate, it's an example of a big company getting incentives to move into a state at great cost to the citizens of the state with no permanent benefit. Probably in a couple more years when all the incentives run out, they will either sell off the company or move again.

Makes good business sense to me. As long as our politicians make anti-business regulations and unions unreasonable demands the only way a big business will survive is to start playing the game. I'll be using more part time employees and less full time to make up my additional Obama costs for the full time employees.

Now instead of the old medical plan we offered they won't qualify for any medical plan or "any" benefits because we're hiring three employees to replace two full time employee. I have a heart so we've offered the part time positions to current full time employees, if they accept the reduced hours (we're keepig them. We'll be keeping some employees on full time, but we've selected the "creme of the crop" for those positions. It's called playing the cards the Government dealt us. You're naive if you don't think the majority of businesses aren't using the same logic to stay in business.

Those who voted for Obama have doomed million into poverty, they thought they would "shaft" businesses. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Carlos

[RealJustme]

Before you guys start coming down on me for being heartless, Obama has promised those without access to health care insurance through their jobs cheap insurance through health insurance exchanges. Time for Obama to deliver and those who voted for him to stop whining about health insurance, the guy you elected has told you he has you covered. You can go to any doctor you want anytime you want and it'll be cheaper than what you were paying before.

I'm just glad I can now send workers to those health insurance exhanges instead of our business having to pay for it.