[johnforbes]

...that Trump said make certain Jan 6th was a "safe event" and that he didn't care whether Milley used active or reserve components to accomplish that.

Apparently Milley dragged his feet out of concern for "bad optics" and why Pelosi didn't act is unknown.

But all the blaming of Trump was wrong.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, never mind that your post is bullshit. It's already been explained to you many times.

Regardless of who 'should' have had the National Guard deployed because everyone knew that Trump would send his violent hoard of devotees out to riot, the fact is that Trump sat in the White House watching TV when he should have immediately shut it down with a single tweet, radio, or TV announcement.

The fact is he only posted a tweet when it became clear that the rioters were not going to get into the House Chamber after the idiot who climbed through the transom past the last barrier protecting Congress members from an armed mob was shot and killed. Then Trump decided after all those hours of silence and inaction to do something to stop the riot.

The default position of the argument is NOT that the National Guard should have been there. They were never needed in the past and they NEVER should be needed. Not in America where we respect and accept fair election results without violence. It took Trump to make the Guard necessary. He sent them to the Capitol, telling them that if they didn't "fight like hell" that they would be to blame for his losing the election, lying that he would be there along side them. he wound them up and set them free. He's responsible for EVERYTHING that happened that day.

The default position is that the guy who sent rioters to the Capitol should have done something to stop the riot after five minutes, not after watching it on TV for three hours, ignoring his staff who were pleading with him to do something to stop it. Neither the Speaker of the House nor the Majority Leader in the Senate have authority to call out the National Guard and you know it. The President DOES have the authority. You don't blame those who can't do anything about it. You blame the guy who not only started it, but also has the authority and power to stop it but refuses to do so.

THAT's why all the blaming of Trump is absolutely right. NOT blaming Trump, even by his few non-violent supporters, is what is completely wrong.

[johnforbes]

The transcripts prove President Trump ordered the National Guard to deploy days before J6

This explains why he didn't make the order on J6, which the media loves to ask about - he had already made it

The Pentagon ignored him

[Clownkicker]

johnny, everyone sees that you failed to respond to the real point, which is that Trump did nothing to call off his mob for three hours.

Now, as to your partisan interpretation of the report: if you simply read it you will see that according to the report Trump never ordered the Pentagon to deploy the National Guard. Your repeated claim that he did is just a partisan lie.

Of the many frightening things in the report, one of the scariest reveals what Trump's plan actually was:
"I was cognizant of the fears that the President would invoke the Insurrection Act to politicize the military in
an anti-democratic manner. And, just before the Electoral College certification, 10 former Secretaries of
Defense signed an op-ed piece published in The Washington Post warning of the dangers of politicizing and
using inappropriately the military. No such thing was going to occur on my watch."-Christopher Miller, Acting Sec. of Defense

Once the Guard was there, Trump would have taken over and shut down the Capitol before the certification by Congress could be finalized, using the riot he started as the excuse. It would have been the end of a democratic America and we would have had martial law at the Capitol under the control of Trump. And all the while Trump would have been claiming he never ordered the Guard to be there (because he didn't) and he would have blamed it all on Pelosi, just as you do now.

Trump is responsible for the riot--period. The Guard's presence would not have prevented it. Trump not only told his mob to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" but he also could have stopped the riot five minutes after it started with a simple tweet or TV announcement. But he didn't. He let the destruction and assault on police go on for three hours while he watched TV.

No report (especially one you didn't bother to read) changes that fact, johnny.

[johnforbes]

Some staffer fretting about some "fear" does not suffice.

Apparently Milley dragged his feet out of concern for "optics."

Now, when Mr Forbes was in uniform, he was not afforded the opportunity to disobey clear orders out of some concern for optics.

Or any reason at all.

Milley's adipose posterior should be hauled in, even if by wheelbarrow, and he should be asked such questions.

[Clownkicker]

"Some staffer fretting about some "fear" does not suffice."-johnflubs

It wasn't just "some staffer" dimwit. It was the Acting Sec. of Defense.
And you conveniently forgot about the TEN OTHER Secretaries of Defense who thought exactly the same thing.

"Apparently Milley dragged his feet out of concern for "optics."
"Now, when Mr Forbes was in uniform, he was not afforded the opportunity to disobey clear orders out of some concern for optics."-johnflubs

Well that was his call, wasn't it, dummy, since, as the report shows, Trump never gave any "clear orders" to bring in the National Guard. Milley didn't disobey any orders. You made it up.

But you're right, Trump's adipose posterior should be hauled in, even if by wheelbarrow, and he should be asked such questions about why he did nothing for three hours.

[johnforbes]

Thanks to Clowntoker for admitting that Mr Forbes was correct in every jot and tittle

[Clownkicker]

Thanks to johnflubs for agreeing with me that Trump's adipose posterior should be hauled in, even if by wheelbarrow, and he should be asked such questions about why he did nothing for three hours.

Yes, johnforbes is correct in his fruity "jots" and his "tittles" that regularly demonstrate that he is not straight.
But that would be fine if he could only get his facts straight.

[johnforbes]

It would take a hefty wheelbarrow to haul in the fruity founcing of Clown's carcass.

To be fair, the flabby form of General Milley is fairly fit compared to the layers of lard encasing Clown.

As for the rest, it now is clear that Trump ordered 10,000 Guardsmen (or active ) to assure, as he put it, a "safe event."

Milley and Muriel Bowser and Nancy Pelosi ignored that, presumably seeking to gain political advantage for Democrats.

[Clownkicker]

"As for the rest, it now is clear that Trump ordered 10,000 Guardsmen (or active ) to assure, as he put it, a "safe event.""-johnfibs

So prove it, johnny. Quote the report and link the reference here.
But you won't because you can't, as always.

So tell us why did Trump sit watching TV for three hours instead of making it a safe event by simply tweeting to his rioters to stop? Somehow you keep forgetting to address that small detail about Trump's liability for the riot, just as you keep forgetting to address the 10 other Secretaries of State who thought exactly like Christopher Miller who also didn't disobey any orders.

[johnforbes]

The facts do prove that most of the hoopla Democrats catalyzed was, as per usual, pure baloney.

Milley either disobeyed an order or delayed it, and Mayor Bowser and Pelosis apparently wanted the chaos that day so they could use it for political gain (which they cynically did for years).

Thankfully, Mr Forbes cares solely about the truth.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^^ As I said, he didn't because he couldn't. ^^^^^^^


"Thankfully, Mr Forbes cares solely about the truth."-johnfibs

So then why do you keep lying like this, johnny? If you had "the truth" you could quote it or link to it, but you obviously can't.
That's the trouble with lies, johnny, you can't back them up with facts.

[johnforbes]

Yes, indeed, the facts do prove that most of the hoopla Democrats catalyzed was, as per usual, pure baloney.

Milley either disobeyed an order or delayed it, and Mayor Bowser and Pelosis apparently wanted the chaos that day so they could use it for political gain (which they cynically did for years).

Thankfully, Mr Forbes cares solely about the truth.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^^ As I said, he didn't because he couldn't. ^^^^^^^

Obviously, Trump wanted the chaos that day so he could use it for political gain since for three hours he did nothing to stop the riot when he could have and instead merely watched the attacks on police on TV as his staff pleaded with him to act.

Unfortunately, johnforbes ignores this truth because he simply doesn't care so much as a jot or a tittle about truth.

[johnforbes]

Obviously, Democrats like Milley, Pelosi, and Bowser wanted chaos.

[Clownkicker]

Of course, what is ACTUALLY obvious is that Republican Trump wanted chaos since for three hours he did nothing at all to quell the chaos. Trump simply watched it on TV as though it was for his entertainment while his staff was pleading with him to act.

New Info Shows that partisan assholes like johnforbes are always trying to obscure the undeniable fundamental truth of what happened that day---that Trump fired up an armed mob, sent them to the Capitol to "fight like hell" and then he sat by and watched the violence and destruction on TV while doing nothing to stop it.

Thank gawd the National Guard had not been deployed so that Trump was unable to take over and shut down the Capitol before the certification of the Electoral College vote. Had he succeeded, we would now be living in a banana republic under a dictator.

[johnforbes]

Clowntoker did nothing to quell the chaos on that fateful day.

Trump sought 10,000 Guard (or active, he left that to the discretion of others) to assure, as he put it, a "safe event."

Wanting a safe event is quite a far cry from the dolts claiming he wanted a coup d'etat.

Mayor Bowser, and Milley -- reposing on an adipose posterior like Clown -- did nothing because they were afraid of the optics of such a crackdown.

Pelosi admitted she was at fault, and that waas captured by her own daughter's documentary footage.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^^^^ Look at johnny desperately flee the facts of Trump's actions over his limp-wristed rhetoric.

As I said, New Info Shows that partisan assholes like johnforbes are always trying to obscure the undeniable fundamental truth of what happened that day---that Trump fired up an armed mob, sent them to the Capitol to "fight like hell" and then he sat by and watched the violence and destruction on TV while doing nothing to stop it.

It's not what he SAYS, dimwit. It's what he DOES that matters. And what he did is NOTHING other than sit and watch TV.

[johnforbes]

It the impending IG report emerges, and is not redacted, it would be interesting to learn what actually happened.

E.g., what happened with the purported pipe bomb stunt, and where were the arrests?

Likely it was an assorted collection of things -- part legit demonstration, part excessive rhetoric, partly incompetent security personnel, a lot of undercover agents, and hopefully it'll be zero undercover agitators.

But really, even at this late date, any fair person would have to admit that he simply doesn't know what happened that day given all the attempts to manipulate it for partisan political gain.

Even that evening, all top Democrats were coordinated on the evening news shows calling it the same loaded political terms.

But Bowser, Milley, and Pelosi had the assets available, and two weeks before Trump had said he wanted it to be a "safe event."

Democrats need to admit that they have baled this political hay for 3 years already.

[Clownkicker]

"But really, even at this late date, any fair person would have to admit that he simply doesn't know what happened that day..."-johnfoibles

johnny, I DO KNOW that Trump riled up a mob and told them to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" and lied that he would be right there beside them. I KNOW this is true because I watched him do it on TV in real time.

I also KNOW that Trump sat and watched the riot on TV for three hours because his own White House staff, family, and close advisors said that's what he did. There is no reason to doubt that's what Trump did. It is all corroborated by cell phone texts and Congressional testimony under oath.


"The panel played videotaped testimony from White House aides and security staff discussing the events of the day.
Former White House counsel Pat Cipollone was asked question after question in the recorded testimony about Trump's actions: did he call the secretary of defense? The attorney general? The head of Homeland Security? Cipollone answered "no" to each query.

""He's got to condemn this shit ASAP," Trump's eldest son, Don Jr., appealed in a text message to Trump's chief of staff, Mark Meadows. "They will try to fuck his entire legacy on this if it gets worse."-Reuters

Not to mention that when Trump was advised that VP Pence's life was in danger, Trump simply responded "So what?"


I know all this. johnforbes knows all this. It is not disputed by anyone. Yet johnforbes STILL cannot bring himself to hold Trump responsible for his failure to act to stop the riot. Instead, he keeps harping on the absurd "Trump had said he wanted it to be a "safe event.""

THAT'S A GIVEN, johnny. EVERYONE wants a safe event. You don't get points for saying 'I hope no one dies.' NO ONE wants anyone to die. DUHHH But that isn't a "clear order" (in your words) to do anything.
Trump doesn't get any points for briefly pretending he's an American who supports the peaceful transfer of power. He gave no "clear orders" that day and left things in the hands of others. They did what they did. You can "armchair quarterback" it in a partisan manner all you like. You can blame your political foes for what they did that day. Fine. But that does not excuse or exonerate Trump of what HE did that day. Which is NOTHING as he let the riot go on, injuring police and causing destruction at the Capitol. He had the power to stop it but didn't.


"Democrats need to admit that they have baled this political hay for 3 years already."-Dishonestjohn

Democrats wouldn't have been doing it for three years if Trump hadn't been holding rallies regularly and lying about how the election was "stolen" without a shred of evidence to support the assertion, dummy. Trump has been lying about it non-stop for nearly four years. Of COURSE Democrats have been forced to respond and remind everyone that Trump is lying. If Trump had simply conceded the election like a decent human being and a decent American, it's unlikely this would have been constantly in the news all these years. Yet again you're blaming Democrats for what Trump has done.

[johnforbes]

No, that is sadly not a given.

Mayor Bowser and General Milley must not have wanted a "safe event" because they simply did not act pursuant to Trump's request for 10k active or reserve troops.

Pelosi admitted on her own daughter's documentary that she was to blame.

Democrats have baled political hay for almost 4 years off that day, so apparently they were ready, willing, and able to seek to benefit from that chaos/riot.

And now, years later, they still want to redact the IG's report so they ordinary citizens don't know how many undercover agents or informants were deployed and why and what they did.

As a law-abiding person who doesn't attend such events (never have, never will), others merely want to know -- on a purely factual basis -- what the heck happened.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, no amount of troops there that day would have prevented the riot. There were two militia groups there that were determined to breach the Capitol. They were trained in assault tactics that we also all saw on TV that day. Some had zip tie handcuffs on their belts to take hostages. They knew exactly what they were doing, it was planned in advance, and they didn't need any "undercover agitators" to get them to act on their plans.

All troops would have done is provide Trump the means to declare martial law as an excuse to shut down the Capitol and stop the certification. Oh, and there also might have been more people killed if troops were there. It's what troops are trained to do. We are all extremely fortunate that there were no military troops there that day, for more than one reason.

And we all notice that you still haven't commented on Trump's watching TV for three hours as he let the riot go on. Why is that, johnny? Are you really that much of a pussy that you can't admit the truth? You, the guy who claims to only care about the truth?

The real truth is, you're just too chickenshit to call Trump out for his undisputed and unforgivable actions that day.
I guess you consider yourself fortunate that you aren't in Springfield right now because the Haitians would surely cannibalize a big pussy like you, right?

[johnforbes]

Come on, Clown, the very opposite is true.

10,000 troops calm people down.

A lot.

[Clownkicker]

And we all notice that you still haven't commented on Trump's watching TV for three hours as he let the riot go on. Why is that, johnny? Are you really that much of a pussy that you can't admit the truth? You, the guy who claims to only care about the truth?

[johnforbes]

Every thread has a life, and this fine one is no exceoption.

Now, we all ask of ourselves: What have we learned here?

As is often the case, the best lesson stems from a graceful, insightful post from Mr Forbes:


It would take a hefty wheelbarrow to haul in the fruity flouncing of Clown's carcass.

To be fair, the flabby form of General Milley is fairly fit compared to the layers of lard encasing Clown.

[Clownkicker]

"Now, we all ask of ourselves: What have we learned here?"-johnfoibles

We have all learned that johnforbes, while claiming to only care about the truth, is still too big a pussy to comment on Trump's watching TV for three hours as he let the riot go on. Why is that, johnny? Here puss, puss, puss, puss...

We have also learned that it would take a wheelbarrow to haul in Trump's obese carcass. To be fair, the flabby form of General Milley is fairly fit compared to the layers of lard encasing Trump.

So if being obese makes one unfit for office as johnforbes is suggesting with Milley, then we also know that it makes Trump unfit for office by johnforbes' own standard. And one would think dimwit johnny would have some concerns about Republicans running the oldest candidate for President in the history of our country. And Trump also refuses to release his medical records. So johnny knows full well that Trump is completely unfit to be President. Everyone knows he's hiding something serious.

And beyond all that, anyone with any brains knows that Trump's refusal to debate Harris even on FOXnews is proof that Trump knows he's losing his mind and can't win a debate, even with a three-to-one mediator bias in Trump's favor. "Bock, bock, bock..."-DJTrump

[johnforbes]

As twilight settles in on this thread, it stands as a mystic microcosm of this fine forum.

And -- as ever -- we ask ourselves in what ways our lives have been improved by our participation.

Every thread has a life, and this fine one is no exceoption.

Now, we all ask of ourselves: What have we learned here?

As is often the case, the best lesson stems from a graceful, insightful post from Mr Forbes.

It bears repeating, as so many of Mr Forbes' deposits of wisdom do:


It would take a hefty wheelbarrow to haul in the fruity flouncing of Clown's carcass.

To be fair, the flabby form of General Milley is fairly fit compared to the layers of lard encasing Clown.