[johnforbes]

Just one year ago, it was racist and irrational to wonder if a Wuhan lab leak (from gain of function research partly funded by NIAID) was to blame.

Now people realize that was always more reasonable than bats on vacation or pangolin panini.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, you yourself said that COVID-19 was loose in China up to a year before the pandemic starting in November of 2019 as shown by tests for antibodies in old blood samples.

Now you are insisting that there was no COVID loose after all until the Wuhan lab let it out.

So which is it? Were your claims about antibody tests on old blood samples a lie? Are you saying you were just promoting partisan lies when you posted that?

Why do you have so much trouble sticking to a non-partisan story, johnny? You simply adjust your current story for some political expediency of the moment.

[johnforbes]

No, you misunderstood.

What I often said was that Dr. Ioannidis did random testing of asymptomatic people in CA in the spring of 2020 and found as much as 85 times the expected quantity of people had antibodies -- i.e., that covid-19 was spreading despite lockdowns.

And, if you consider his logic, that made sense because about 130 million Americans kept working and did not lock down, so grocery stores and liquor store and big box hardware stores served as central locations which at least arguably may have dispersed covid more effectively than a non-lockdown might have.

[Clownkicker]

Oh, excuse me--

johnny, you yourself said that COVID-19 was loose in the U.S. up to a year before the pandemic starting in November of 2019 as shown by tests for antibodies in Americans.

Now you are insisting that there was no COVID loose after all until the Wuhan lab let it out in late 2019.

So which is it? Were your claims about antibody tests on old blood samples a lie? Are you saying you were just promoting partisan lies when you posted that?

[johnforbes]

Oh, you were referring to the old blood samples they looked at and found antibodies in. That was no claim I made, but simply a fact that they did those tests and they were reported in newspapers.

That was interesting, but we are not MDs and it is difficult for a non-physician to know what to make of that.

Glenn Kessler, the fact- check dude for the pro-Dem Washington Post, has a MA in international affairs.

My overall point is that yelling racism is not good enough, and that science MUST find what the true origin of covid was.

[Clownkicker]

"Oh, you were referring to the old blood samples they looked at and found antibodies in. That was no claim I made, but simply a fact that they did those tests and they were reported in newspapers."-johnforbes

Okay, johnny, if it's a "fact" as you say that tests showed COVID-19 was around in the U.S. for a year before the pandemic broke out, then the virus didn't first "escape from the Wuhan lab" a year later, did it.

"My overall point is that yelling racism is not good enough, and that science MUST find what the true origin of covid was."-johnflubs

It was TRUMP that claimed he knew the source of the virus was China, johnny, and you support him in that claim. But you also say it's a fact that antibodies to the virus were around in U.S. blood samples a year before it could have "escaped" from the Wuhan lab.

Trump calling it the "China Virus" while still ignorant of the source is then a racist statement since he jumped to the assumption that "China" had anything to do with it. He then wielded that moniker to make political policy against China but not Europe where the greater threat to America existed. And your continued support for that moniker while you simultaneously admit you are ignorant of the source is causing a huge spike in racist hate crimes against Asians in this country. They have more than doubled in the past year because of Trump and Republicans and YOU personally.

[johnforbes]

Well, if anybody knew the true origin of covid and could prove it, he would be in a great position because all honest people want to know.

The zoonotic theory seemed fairly absurd, in part because covid-19 doesn't transmit well outside (where wild animals live).

Apologists for the CCP said bio experts concluded that the virus was not made in the lab, but that was ignoring the human attempts to tinker IN THE LAB with such stuff and such attempts are vigorous and ongoing.

Biden apparently killed off one investigation into the origin of covid-19, and that was perhaps because Dems in bed with China don't want to know the origin.

[Clownkicker]

"The zoonotic theory seemed fairly absurd, in part because covid-19 doesn't transmit well outside (where wild animals live)."-johnflubs

You do know that bats live in enclosed spaces by the tens of thousands, right?

Criminy, nothing is ruled out yet, dummy.

And the meticulous records of a Dr. Shi in the Wuhan lab show that there was no specimin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in the lab before the outbreak. No scientist questions her records.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... 5834c55585

[johnforbes]

The notion that covid-19 was entirely concocted in the lab does seem far-fetched, but so were the zoonotic theories.

Think tanks such as Brookings just shrugged and took the zoonotic notion as a given, and so did most media outlets.

To his credit, leftists such as Jamie Metzl (JD Harvard, DPhil Oxon) couldn't stop thinking about the problem and kept wondering what really happened.

It might have been simplistic to simply blame China, but it was equally silly to just blame a bat who took a 200-mile vacation.

The problem is that nobody knows what happened, even a year later, and after trillions have been spent.

[Clownkicker]

And yet you keep supporting Trump's clearly false lies without criticism while criticizing Fauci for his ongoing rational approach to the problem.

That's why you aren't taken seriously, johnny. You simultaneously applaud those who question things as you blindly support a liar who never questions anything he (and you) wants to believe.

You're still waiting for the day last year when COVID should have "miraculously" disappeared because Trump said it would. You still think there could be 2.8 billion cases of COVID in the U.S. because Dr. Ioannides told you there could be 85 times more cases than were medically verified. This sort of cognitive dissonance doesn't even register in your conscious mind.

[johnforbes]

Where did anybody mention Trump in this discussion?

This thread is about the origin of covid-19, and about liberals such as Jamie Metzl telling his fellow leftists that the origin matters.

[Clownkicker]

"Where did anybody mention Trump in this discussion?"

I did, right up there in my third post, dummy, after YOU dishonestly tried to excuse Trump's racism in calling it to this day "the Chinese virus".

"It was TRUMP that claimed he knew the source of the virus was China, johnny, and you support him in that claim. But you also say it's a fact that antibodies to the virus were around in U.S. blood samples a year before it could have "escaped" from the Wuhan lab.

Trump calling it the "China Virus" while still ignorant of the source is then a racist statement since he jumped to the assumption that "China" had anything to do with it. He then wielded that moniker to make political policy against China but not Europe where the greater threat to America existed. And your continued support for that moniker while you simultaneously admit you are ignorant of the source is causing a huge spike in racist hate crimes against Asians in this country. They have more than doubled in the past year because of Trump and Republicans and YOU personally."-me

You should really read my posts before you ignore them, johnny. At least you wouldn't ask such stupid questions about what I posted, making a fool of yourself.

As with all Trump supporters, you want to agree with Trump(who he claims he knows) at all times, insisting he isn't a liar, but then you pretend to be rational admitting that nobody knows---which makes Trump a liar.

This thread is about the origin of covid-19, and about how johnforbes wants to pretend Republicans aren't all lying about it as they refuse to take it seriously. 40% still won't get vaccinated and they still bitch about wearing masks, causing hundreds of dangerous incidents just on commercial flights alone.

Yes, johnny, it matters, but you are enabling Trump supporters in denial to extend the pandemic and endanger others unneccessarily. It's unconscionable.

[johnforbes]

The Spanish Flu was not a racist identifier a century ago, nor is it racist to admit that the Wuhan virus was from China.

The CCP wanted to shut down discussion of the Chinese origin, and the Politically Correct dolts in the Ameri an Left were eager to swallow the CCP line.

[Clownkicker]

"The problem is that nobody knows what happened, even a year later,..."-johnflubs

"...nor is it racist to admit that the Wuhan virus was from China."-johnfibs

You just got done saying nobody knows the origin of the virus and then you come back saying it came from China.

So which is it, johnny?

You don't seem to be able to keep your lies straight any longer. (Don't worry too much, it doesn't mean you have dementia. Not being able to keep your lies straight is a common problem among pathological liars.)

[johnforbes]

Both.

Yes, we know the origin was China.

But we need to know whether it was zoonotic, or made in a lab, or manipulated in a lab.

Asher, working for the Biden State Dept, found no evidence it was zoonotic, and then the Biden folks halted the probe because it then became more likely that it was a lab leak or manipulation.

They didn't want to know either.

[Clownkicker]

But you also said it was a "fact" that COVID antibodies in old blood samples in the U.S. say that COVID was in the U.S. a year before it showed up in China. So how could it have first been in the U.S. and also first come from China, dummy?

Why are you ignoring your own assertion about this "fact"?

[johnforbes]

Those are the facts, apparently, based on what people said who looked at those old blood samples.

This one of the several puzzles about the origins of covid, but surely all rational people can agree that it would be a scientific approach to find the truth?

For instance:
ollowing US intelligence revelations that at least three workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were hospitalised in November 2019 with symptoms exactly matching COVID, it has now emerged that the wife of one of the researchers in the lab DIED from the virus just days after.

Former State Department official David Asher, who led an investigation Under President Trump, told the Daily Caller that “an individual who worked at the Wuhan Institute of Virology at the time provided the information on the lab researcher’s wife dying, according to Asher.”

All of this occurred while the communist Chinese government was telling the World Health Organisation that the virus was not transmissible between people. That situation continued for a further MONTH after this information was known.

Asher’s investigation was later shut down by the Biden Administration.

Asher has said that it is “very doubtful that three people in highly protected circumstances” all became sick with “severe conditions all in the same week, and it didn’t have anything to do with the coronavirus.”