[snakeoil]

"The true wealth of a nation is measured by its capacity to deliver, in a sustainable w3ay, high standards of living for all of its citizens."

Joseph E. Stiglit...Nobel Prize Winning Economist

We live in a wonderful time where vast amounts of information is available to us. We need to avail ourselves of this knowledge more often. Many times we will find that what KNOW is true actually is not. Two of my favorite are

OECD.org
USAfacts.org

Let's look at a few3 "facts" we KNOW are true.

a. The Reagan Presidency
From 1947 to 1980 the USA grew at an annual rate of 3.7%. After "Voodoo Economics" from 1980 to 2017 the USA grew at an annual rate of 2.7%. Almost a 30% drop. It also ushered in higher deficits, bank speculation and the huge growth of corporate power. Deregulation of the financial industryled to the massive collapse of 2008.

b. Immigrants
Between 1995 to 2005 immigrants started 52% of all Silicon Valley startups. Immigrants also started more than 40% of Fortune 500 companies

c. Ranking of the USA
The World Bank has a human capital index measuring the investment a society makes in its people...health, education and the ability to survive and grow. The USA ranks 24th behind Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong and Korea. Canada ranks 10th. The USA ranks 40th in math, 24th in reading and 25th in science.

d. Work
Americans work1780 hours per worker, France-1514 hours. Germany-1356 hours. I have a friend who is a German national working in this country for a German firm. With his seniority, he gets 3 months paid vacation per year. USA growth has been about half of the average of the advanced countries since 2008.

e. Income Inequality
USA has greater income inequality than any other advanced country. The bottom o the population has not seen their wages increase, adjusted for inflation, in about 60 years. Women earn about 86% of men's wages, Blacks earn about 73% of white men's wages, Hispanics earn about 69% of white men's wages. Two dozen individuals own more wealth than all of the people in China, India and Africa combined.

f.

[johnforbes]

Facts can also be deceptive, as in some of the material supra.

For example, immigrants can be divided into LEGAL and ILLEGAL. There is a difference.

As to income inequality, it is often cited as a rationale for socialism. However, human beings are not equal nor should they be. The best solution is not socialism (stealing from successful people and giving it to less successful people), but capitalism which pulls up the standard of living for all.

I've visited the mansion of the second richest man in America in 1900. It had no TV, no PC, no central AC, no Internet.

Today, people on welfare have AC, PCs, central AC, and plenty of food to eat so that obesity is a problem for them.

Capitalism uplifts.

That is another fact.

[snakeoil]

I love watching people twist themselves into pretzels trying to twist the facts to support their views. Or could this be the so-called "Alternative Facts?"

[johnforbes]

Snakeoil, go back and read over what I took a few minutes to scribble out.

There's nothing pretzel-esque in distinguishing LEGAL from ILLEGAL behavior.

And my point about about capitalism was profound, and no doubt new to you.

Ponder if.

The richest man in America in 1900 had less than a welfare recipient today in terms of tech and material comforts such as central heat and air.

Urging the same income for all, which you appear to be doing, is utterly vapid.

[RealJustme]

immigrants started 52% of all Silicon Valley startups. Immigrants also started more than 40% of Fortune 500 companies

I bet you not one of those "immigrants" were here illegally. Back then immigrants had to prove they were healthy, had a needed skills and financially able to take care of themselves so they weren't a burden on the country. Snake just demonstrated why we go need to go back to those requirements for all immigrants and expel all those here illegally.

[sillydaddy]

Facts....The liberals are out raged over the death of 6 foreigners, migrant children,
and blame Trump's immigration policies ….

At the same time they are outraged they may lose the protection of Roe vs. Wade that has..
allowed them to legally destroy 60,000,000 American lives since 1973...

[Clownkicker]

Facts can also be deceptive, as in everything johnforbes posted supra.

For example, there were no "ILLEGAL" immigrants in 1900. Everyone could simply enter, There was no difference.
Johnforbes wants to compare apples to oranges.

As to income inequality, it is often cited as a rationale for a civil society. However, since human beings are not equal, a minimum basic standard of living must be supported by all Americans as articulated in the Constitution. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice,[administered by socialist courts] insure domestic Tranquility,[administered by socialist police forces] provide for the common defence, [by socialist military forces] promote the general Welfare,[through universal socialist education for all, socialist welfare programs for those in need, socialist fire fighting services, socialist National Parks, etc.] and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,..."
The best solution is not to sweepingly rule out additional socialist institutions by pretending socialism is an ugly word when ALL conservatives revere most of the socialist institutions we already have, but to realize that most of the good things available to all in this country are supplied them through socialism. (taxing those who benefit most through the grace of our socialist programs and giving it to less fortunate people), but to have regulated capitalism which prevents monopolies and the accumulation of dynastic wealth that so frightened the founding fathers as it threatens democracy for all. Such dynastic (untaxed wealth) is now a greater threat to democracy than at any time in our history.

I've visited the mansion of the second richest man in America in 1900. It had no TV, no PC, no central AC, no Internet, no telephones. But then, neither did anyone else on the planet. Again, johnforbes is comparing apples to oranges.

Today, people on welfare have TVs, [usually] PCs,[sometimes] central AC, [sometimes] internet when they can find a public access at socialist libraries or wi-fi at a McDonalds, and telephones because the socialist government forced a capitalist corporation to provide them to all, and such poor quality cheap food available to eat that obesity is a problem for them.
But the wealthy have so much of everything that the difference between the second richest man today and the poor is even more massive and worrisome than in 1900. And this doesn't even include the growing homeless class in America--veterans, the mentally ill, those forced into poverty by a single medical emergency, those who went bankrupt by the collapse of capitalist lending and investment banking (who of course were bailed out by the socialist government programs)

Capitalism uplifts. Except when it crushes. Or oppresses.

That is another fact.

[RealJustme]

Facts can also be deceptive, as in everything johnforbes posted supra.

For example, there were no "ILLEGAL" immigrants in 1900.

Snake's glowing post concerns the immigrants from 1995-2005, try paying attention Clown.

[Clownkicker]

EXACTLY, you moron. So why did johnforbes bring up 1900?

Try paying attention, RealTard.

[johnforbes]

Clown, you are factually wrong anyhow.

Until 1850, there were no controls on immigration other than ship captains presenting passenger lists to a given port authority. Even that only applied in major ports.

Snakeoil's post was also -- ahem -- snake oil for another reason.

Comparing immigrants who started or contributed to the tech boom to the mass illegal immigration from Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, etc. is just intellectually dishonest.

But let's get to the real question.

Liberals believe in open borders so that every person in Central or South America could enter, get free food, shelter, health care, education, etc.

How can America continue as a country that way?

Already, parts of California resemble the Third World because the Third World was let in.

[snakeoil]

The World Bank has a human capital index measuring the investment a society makes in its people...health, education and the ability to survive and grow. The USA ranks 24th behind Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong and Korea. Canada ranks 10th. The USA ranks 40th in math, 24th in reading and 25th in science.

This fact seems to have slid by most readers. I'm afraid that this fact will almost ensure that the USA will become a second rate power if we don't change it. But then again, a dumb electorate is easier to control with deceptive and alternate facts.

[snakeoil]

Come on John! I don't know of anyone that supports open borders. It is a fact that our immigration policies are a bit antiquated and should have been updated years ago.

[RealJustme]

It is a fact that our immigration policies are a bit antiquated

Snake, changing the immigration policies alone, doesn't address those coming in illegally, they are totally ignoring our immigration polices, they will continue to come in illegally unless we start enforcing our laws. If our current immigration laws were enforced, police in every city would be rounding up illegals for deportation.

[sillydaddy]

Come on John! I don't know of anyone that supports open borders...!

snakeoil…...prepare youself to be enlighten and maybe even shocked...

check out this link..
https://www.influencewatch. ...

[snakeoil]

Founded in 2016, Influence Watch is a project of the conservative think tank, Capital Research Center. According to their about page “Capital Research Center ...

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/influence-watch/

Amazing! A conservative think tank. why did I know that already.

[johnforbes]

Snakeoil, if you are contending it takes too long to go through our legal immigration process, that is true.

It also takes a long time for an average person to become a millionaire, but the solution isn't to act illegally.

As to nobody supporting open borders, what Democrat supports ANY measure to secure the border?

None.

Even Biden and Kamala et alia all support free medical care and food and shelter etc to reward illegals.

Name one Democrat candidate who supports any measure to secure the border.