Political discussions about everything
By snakeoil
#111830
Our National Debt is expected to rise to $21 trillion dollars in the next couple of years. I’m afraid that not too many really understand our National Debt. I have had friends say that we have managed with high debt in the past and nothing happened, so we can manage this. As in your own life, no debt is the perfect way to live but that would be unrealistic. I’ll try to explain a little bit about the National Debt, but I admit it is woefully incomplete.

a. The main measure used on national debt is debt to GDP. This is the measurement used but it is not a good one. The assets owned by the governments are figured into these figures.

b. The USA GDP in 2017 was $19.391 trillion dollars. Our National Debt is therefore at about 101% of GDP.

c. Who owns our debt? About 75% is owned by entities in this country. These entities are private citizens, the banks, the central bank (the FED,) and corporations. The balance is owned by foreign countries, foreign central banks and wealthy individuals seeking a safe place to stash their money. Downside? China owns about 6.1% of our National Debt. Who owns the debt is extremely important; Japan’s debt is about 150% of GDP but the debt is owned by Japanese entities almost in total.

d. The debt is financed by issuing bonds. These bond mature in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 4 years, 7 years and sometimes longer. The interest rates on these bonds reflect the going interest rates at the time and the confidence others have in the United States. When bonds become due we have been rolling over most of our debt (including the interest due.) Try to imagine what your debt would be if you refinanced your mortgage every 6 months.

e. Trump recently chastised the Fed for raising interest rates. Raising interest rates by the Fed increases our National Dept.

BTW: Mnuchen recently calling the banks after the stock market losses to ascertain their true health was wise as confidence in our banking system is crucial to financing our debt.

f. Our ability to finance our debt rely on the confidence others have in the USA ability to pay back the bond, the confidence and health of our banking system, our rising GDP, the sane practices of the Fed.

g. What could go wrong?

1. The major item is that we don’t have enough income (taxes) to finance our debt.
Revenues for this year have fallen dramatically.

2. Conflicts (wars) which drain our resources.

3. One-sided trade agreements that cause the loss of our GDP and dollars.

4. A financial crises that causes a loss of confidence in our ability to pay back the money owed.

5. A major banking crises as we have not fully recovered from 2008.

6. Minimal or decrease of our GDP.

7. Public resistance to the fiscal policies of the US Government.
8. A natural disaster that severely impacts revenues.

9. Wide spread civil strife.

10. Over extending commitments to other nations.

j. Red flag Warning! Most advanced nations have high debt which means that each country has to compete for money to finance their debt. Almost all developing countries have unmanageable debt.
We are nearing the point where there will not be enough money available to finance all nation’s debt.

k. All solutions to getting the debt down to a manageable level will be painful to the citizens and if it is not done wisely it could sink the country into chaos. One of theeasiest ways to decre4ase the debt is through raising the GDP. This will stiffle the outflow of money to other countries and raise revenue through taxes.

l. The main reason to decrease the debt is this; if the debt was zero we would have all that money to spend on our citizens and country.
By snakeoil
#111831
One other red flag...About $12 trillion of our GDP is from services. This includes anyone who does not make a product to sell. This includes the person that repairs a machine in a factory, etc. Many, if not most of these jobs, can be exported and many have already been exported.
User avatar
By RealJustme
#111832
One other red flag...About $12 trillion of our GDP is from services. This includes anyone who does not make a product to sell.
Trump has already said the federal government is bloated with workers who don't produce anything. We can clear up the National Debt in 2 years if we just slash 30% of the Federal work force. If any private company operated like government agencies do, they wouldn't last two years.
User avatar
By RealJustme
#111841
The annual cost for Federal Government employees Is $92.2 Billion. Your math doesn't work.
Dude, you really do have your head stuck in the sand, the Treasury Department’s budget alone is $500 Billion, the majority of that is salaries and benefits for their employees. That's just one agency, there are over 430 federal departments and agencies in our country. $92 billion to staff all the agencies, :lol: stop taking that stuff dude!
By sillydaddy
#111843
BTW:" Trump just froze government workers salaries.
I wish he could freeze gasoline prices... I just paid $1.75 a gallon :)
By Clownkicker
#111845
"We can clear up the National Debt in 2 years if we just slash 30% of the Federal work force."-RealTool

Let's see, that would mean that the Federal government payroll is $33 Trillion per year to make RealTool's numbers work. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Haven't you learned by now that RealTool simply lies about everything, all the time?

$20 Trillion in current National Debt (simple rounded-down number) means we would have to pay down $10 Trillion a year to "clear up the National Debt in two years" to make Tool's claim true.
$10 Trillion would have to be 30% of the total Federal Payroll.
Which means RealTool is claiming the entire Federal payroll is $33 Trillion a year. (When our entire GDP per year is only $19 Trillion.) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Raise your hand if you believe RealTool has the foggiest idea of what the fuck he's talking (i.e. LYING) about.
By elklindo69
#111846
This goes to show you how Trump supporters like Justme aren’t willfully ignorant. They’re just intentionally stupid.

:lol:
User avatar
By RealJustme
#111858
$20 Trillion in current National Debt (simple rounded-down number) means we would have to pay down $10 Trillion a year to "clear up the National Debt in two years" to make Tool's claim true.
No it doesn't! We wouldn't have to pay 1 penny, we would just need to reduce spending (cut federal employees by 30%) and let the economy bring the money in to balance the budget. When you say pay $10 trillion, who the hell does the federal government pay that money too? :shock: Clown it's 101 economics, now don't you feel silly :D

It's amazing how libtards are such simpletons. :lol: :lol: :lol:
By Clownkicker
#111859
Jesus H. Chrisis RealTool is staggeringly stupid.

johnny, would you explain to that moron what a U.S.Treasury security is and then explain to him that the face value of every security must be paid when it matures.

He clearly doesn't comprehend that we can't simply sit around and watch the National Debt just magically evaporate by not adding more debt to the existing debt. The existing debt still exists, dimwit. And the wages of 30% of the Federal workforce for two years would barely put a dent in the National Debt.

I already knew that Republicans believed in Voodoo economics, but RealTool takes that stupidity to an entirely new level.
It's called Doodoo economics because RealTool's understanding of economics is based on made up stupid shit.
User avatar
By namngulfvet
#111860
Clownkicker wrote:Jesus H. Chrisis RealTool is staggeringly stupid.

johnny, would you explain to that moron what a U.S.Treasury security is and then explain to him that the face value of every security must be paid when it matures.

He clearly doesn't comprehend that we can't simply sit around and watch the National Debt just magically evaporate by not adding more debt to the existing debt. The existing debt still exists, dimwit. And the wages of 30% of the Federal workforce for two years would barely put a dent in the National Debt.

I already knew that Republicans believed in Voodoo economics, but RealTool takes that stupidity to an entirely new level.
It's called Doodoo economics because RealTool's understanding of economics is based on made up stupid shit.
thanks for admitting that 9 Trillion plus that Ojackass added to the deficit was really stupid
By elklindo69
#111861
namngulfvet wrote:
Clownkicker wrote:Jesus H. Chrisis RealTool is staggeringly stupid.

johnny, would you explain to that moron what a U.S.Treasury security is and then explain to him that the face value of every security must be paid when it matures.

He clearly doesn't comprehend that we can't simply sit around and watch the National Debt just magically evaporate by not adding more debt to the existing debt. The existing debt still exists, dimwit. And the wages of 30% of the Federal workforce for two years would barely put a dent in the National Debt.

I already knew that Republicans believed in Voodoo economics, but RealTool takes that stupidity to an entirely new level.
It's called Doodoo economics because RealTool's understanding of economics is based on made up stupid shit.
thanks for admitting that 9 Trillion plus that Ojackass added to the deficit was really stupid
Dumbfuck...The deficit under Obama was due to the great recession and the deficit under Trump is due to unnecessary and misguided tax cuts which is nothing more than a bread and circus act. Tax cuts are not appropriate at this time... it's more appropriate during a recession.
By snakeoil
#111864
The point of my OP is (and it seems most people have missed it) that our National Debt is like a land mine: you can go on with your life fine unless something triggers the land mine. The National Debt of many, if not most, advanced countries is way too high. The National Debt of developing countries is much worse and will almost assuredly implode.

Our esteemed GOP leaders totally ignored the risks of unmanageable debt and passed a tax bill that will add trillions to our debt. Realfool will read this and bring up the debt of Obama but he should realize that we were in a immensely severe financial crisis that could have sunk the world's economies.
By johnforbes
#111869
Debt matters regardless of party.

However, you can't excuse Obama's DOUBLING of the debt.

He ran up more debt THAN ALL PRIOR PRESIDENTS COMBINED.

He ADDED NINE TRILLION TO THE DEBT.
By elklindo69
#111888
If Trump can get reelected or if they don't arrest him before he leaves office then Trump will pass Obama in running up the national debt.
User avatar
By RealJustme
#111894
Our esteemed GOP leaders totally ignored the risks of unmanageable debt and passed a tax bill that will add trillions to our debt. Realfool will read this and bring up the debt of Obama but he should realize that we were in a immensely severe financial crisis that could have sunk the world's economies.
Obama added more debt to our country than all other presidents combined and snake claims that was a good thing under Obama but bad that Trump hasn't paid it off after two years in office. :shock:

Still laughing at Snake's claim that the whole federal government can be staffed with only $92 billion a year. :lol: :lol: :lol:
By snakeoil
#111905
I've searched and searched the post and I can't find where I said that Obama's debt was any better than anyone else's. Justfool just had to post something so he picked something out of the air.
By johnforbes
#111906
Debt is not partisan, and it is a problem regardless of partisanship.

However, it is disingenuous for the Left today to proclaim concern for the debt when they had no apparent similar concern when Obama racked up more debt than all prior presidents combined.

But, we are where we are, and it would be better to use GDP growth to mitigate the debt problem.

That is what JFK believed, and Reagan, and me too.
User avatar
By RealJustme
#111909
Snake: I've searched and searched the post and I can't find where I said that Obama's debt was any better than anyone else's. Justfool just had to post something so he picked something out of the air.
Snake you justified Obama's spending in the same sentence you chastised Trump for doing it. You're becoming as dishonest in your postings a clown.
Snake :Our esteemed GOP leaders totally ignored the risks of unmanageable debt and passed a tax bill that will add trillions to our debt. Realfool will read this and bring up the debt of Obama but he should realize that we were in a immensely severe financial crisis that could have sunk the world's economies.
User avatar
By namngulfvet
#111910
RealJustme wrote:
Snake: I've searched and searched the post and I can't find where I said that Obama's debt was any better than anyone else's. Justfool just had to post something so he picked something out of the air.
Snake you justified Obama's spending in the same sentence you chastised Trump for doing it. You're becoming as dishonest in your postings a clown.
Snake :Our esteemed GOP leaders totally ignored the risks of unmanageable debt and passed a tax bill that will add trillions to our debt. Realfool will read this and bring up the debt of Obama but he should realize that we were in a immensely severe financial crisis that could have sunk the world's economies.
My point as well Snake and Elk. Learn to read and comprehend
By elklindo69
#111916
Donald Trump: As projected in the FY 2019 budget, Trump plans to add $4.775 trillion, a 29-percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017.

FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion.
FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion.
FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion.
FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion.

Barack Obama: Added $8.588 trillion, a 74-percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget, FY 2009.

FY 2017 - $672 billion.
FY 2016 - $1.423 trillion.
FY 2015 - $327 billion.
FY 2014 - $1.086 trillion.
FY 2013 - $672 billion.
FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
FY 2009 - $253 billion. Congress passed the Economic Stimulus Act, which spent $253 billion in FY 2009. This rare occurrence should be added to President Obama's contribution to the debt.
By johnforbes
#111937
The point is real, but the distinction is that Obama -- unlike JFK, unlike Reagan, unlike Trump -- didn't grasp the fact that growth is the way out.

Is debt a problem which Obama made stupendously worse (added NINE TRILLION), and that Trump should tread carefully to avoid exacerbating?

Yep.
By elklindo69
#111993
I'm wondering....where's the Tea Party movement. Are they in a deep slumber or do they come out when democrats become president?

John so eagerly brings up Obama in a heartbeat as an excuse to spin away from the failures of Trump. Trump is freaking spending like a drunken sailor. And the tax cuts are nothing more than bread and circus act which is blowing a hole in the national debt which John so eagerly ignores and spins back to Obama to further claim....well Obama did this and that...that's nothing more than a cop out and an intellectually deficient and dishonest argument.

In the context of the national debt, Obama is gone, and whatever Obama did is water under the bridge. Now Trump is the president and you are certainly not defending what Trump is doing by circling back and blaming Obama. That's just amateurish spin and nonsense.
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By RealJustme
#112021
Democrats' version of job expansion is to grow the size of the government, the exact reason our debt is out of control, until we create more jobs that bring in more taxes than they consume the debt will only grown. Obama grew the Federal government by 23% in only 8 years, Trump needs to reduce it.
By elklindo69
#112043
The Republicans have controlled the House and government spending since 2011, adding some 12 trillion dollars to the National Debt.

Good riddance to the “tax cuts for the rich” and “corporate welfare” GOP House!
By elklindo69
#112092
John circles back to Obama as predictably as the night follows the day and the day follows the night.

Trump is running up record breaking national debts and we only hear crickets from the right wing...where's the tea party when you need them. However, John will stop by shortly to remind everybody the national debts run up by the democratic ex-presidents.
By johnforbes
#112095
Anybody who talks about debt and does not mention Obama's NINE TRILLION ADDED is just being dishonest.

Again, I don't view the debt issue as a particularly partisan issue.

It is important, but at least Trump -- like JFK and Reagan -- understands that growing our way out is the only exit.
By Clownkicker
#112105
And yet he's not doing anything to grow our way out, johnny. Instead, he is doing the exact opposite.

With his ridiculous tariffs he is crippling our farmers and tech companies, not to mention withholding paychecks from hundreds of thousands of federal employees. What do you think that will do to overall consumption and company earnings?

Apple just nose dived because of the China tariffs. GM's earnings took a hit to the tune of a billion dollars last year because of the increased cost of steel. Steel companies aren't doing so great, despite the tariffs. The Carrier jobs Trump made such a big deal out of saving with millions in tax breaks packed up and left for Mexico a year later anyway. They couldn't be happier and Trump supporters are so dimwitted they haven't a clue that the jobs are gone anyway.

All 'Trump's economy' has done is continue the trend lines for employment and earnings that were established under Obama for eight years. Now those are in danger from Trump's disruption of the best global economy in 40 years when he took over.
By johnforbes
#112116
No, Apple is poorly run, and Tim Cook is busy with his gay agenda and his open border agenda as in the latest TV ad.

The trade/tariff issue is a tiny part of the Chinese economic picture, and the overbuilding there is massive if you have ever visited the place.
By elklindo69
#112170
johnforbes wrote:No, Apple is poorly run, and Tim Cook is busy with his gay agenda and his open border agenda as in the latest TV ad.

The trade/tariff issue is a tiny part of the Chinese economic picture, and the overbuilding there is massive if you have ever visited the place.
I don't ever remember Apple going into bankruptcy some 5 times?

They do make fine products...unlike Trump's scam "university."
By johnforbes
#112174
Elkin, you are dumb. Every businessman avails himself of the tax code. He must.

Apple is poorly run, and Tim Cook is busy with his gay agenda and his open border agenda as in the latest TV ad.

The trade/tariff issue is a tiny part of the Chinese economic picture, and the overbuilding there is massive if you have ever visited the place.
By elklindo69
#112176
John you previously claimed that you have no knowledge about the operations of technology companies. Then you went on to claim they were overvalued? Now you are claiming that Apple is poorly managed?

I think it's pretty safe to say that you are clueless and making shit up. But that's not new news...
User avatar
By namngulfvet
#112186
While you libs whine about the National debt you fail to realize each and everyday you (all ibs) are making it bigger. By allowing dishonest illegals in to suck up taxpayers money to the tune of $85. Million a year. Remember this next time you whine about the debt
By elklindo69
#112210
I heard that Trump huddled with his “legal team” regarding the alleged “national emergency” at the border.

In other words, two fat and grotesque slobs, Trump and Ghouliani, sat at a buffet table loaded with cheeseburgers, milkshakes, and fries sat there stuffing their faces and concocting lies to spew to the public...
User avatar
By namngulfvet
#112213
elklindo69 wrote:I heard that Trump huddled with his “legal team” regarding the alleged “national emergency” at the border.

In other words, two fat and grotesque slobs, Trump and Ghouliani, sat at a buffet table loaded with cheeseburgers, milkshakes, and fries sat there stuffing their faces and concocting lies to spew to the public...
You really shouldnt be talking about Pelosi and schumer like that Elk.. Even though its true :lol: :lol:
By elklindo69
#112218
namngulfvet wrote:
elklindo69 wrote:I heard that Trump huddled with his “legal team” regarding the alleged “national emergency” at the border.

In other words, two fat and grotesque slobs, Trump and Ghouliani, sat at a buffet table loaded with cheeseburgers, milkshakes, and fries sat there stuffing their faces and concocting lies to spew to the public...
You really shouldnt be talking about Pelosi and schumer like that Elk.. Even though its true :lol: :lol:
The Trump administration is the Enron of governments...the networks will get sky-high ratings if they were to put Trump's impeachment trial on prime time television.

Prime time baby!!!

:lol:
User avatar
By namngulfvet
#112219
elklindo69 wrote:
namngulfvet wrote:
elklindo69 wrote:I heard that Trump huddled with his “legal team” regarding the alleged “national emergency” at the border.

In other words, two fat and grotesque slobs, Trump and Ghouliani, sat at a buffet table loaded with cheeseburgers, milkshakes, and fries sat there stuffing their faces and concocting lies to spew to the public...
You really shouldnt be talking about Pelosi and schumer like that Elk.. Even though its true :lol: :lol:
The Trump administration is the Enron of governments...the networks will get sky-high ratings if they were to put Trump's impeachment trial on prime time television.

Prime time baby!!!

:lol:
again your hatred blinds your sheep boy. When chuckie and Pelosi say jump, you dont ask how high you just jump :lol: :lol:
By elklindo69
#112235
You see Dumbfuck....maybe pounding your teenie weenie fist on the table and storming out might work when you're trying to negotiate a good price from a contractor selling a granite counter top...but trust me...Chuck and Nancy certainly ain't impressed by Trump's whiny ass dirty diaper baby shit-show...freaking empty pumpkin headed moron.

:lol:
By johnforbes
#112255
Elkin is the florid face of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Elkin was never bright -- he was the Gump of this fine forum -- but he didn't use to be so demented.
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