[lumpster]

New evidence released in the Trayvon Martin case reveals at least one witness felt pressure by Sanford Police to back up Gerorge Zimmerman's story, and no one interviewed by police believed Zimmerman was a racist. Mark Strassmann reports.


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7414770n


I told you guys how this would play out.. He'll be found gulity of murder.

[DarknLadyJedi]

Not enough to support a murder charge.

And profiling based on the fact that the kid was wearing the same style clothing worn by individuals involved in several area robberies sounds like a good plan IMHO. Zimmerman had no way of knowing Martin had moved into the area since the robberies.

Racism is going to be hard to support when there is documented evidence that Zimmerman complained to the police about their handling of the Sherman Ware incident. Add in the fact that he was an activist on Ware's behalf and you can pretty much say he didn't hate black people or poor people.

[BobToolong]

The only reason this has been in the news is because it's a black white thing.
The blacks want to make it a racist thing if it had been a black guy shot a white guy everything would have been fine.
There are about 10 black on black killings in Chicago every night and they never make the back page of the newspaper because no one cares.

[Leroy]

It actually appears, from news reports, the there was a local gang that had increased activity in the area and that they wore hoodies.... So, it appears that TM was acting suspicious and that he was a thug, that he was violent in nature, and lets not forget the most important part:

In the police interviews, GZ was bandaged and damaged, something the news failed to report until just the last week....

While I think that GZ will be convicted, it will only be because of a crooked prosecution and judge as well as the massive number of racists in the black community.

[Tigerladyandhim]

Pretty clear cut.
The little guy underneath shot the big guy on top who was pounding him to death.
Black, white, purple, who gives a ..... what colour they were.
Big guys shouldn't hit little guys.
Asking someone what they are doing doesn't justify punching them.

[coolabaloos]

If I was a BIG guy, unarmed, and a Little guy was following me with a gun then I might feel compelled to fight for my life. Wouldn't you?

[Leroy]

If I was a BIG guy, unarmed, and a Little guy was following me with a gun then I might feel compelled to fight for my life. Wouldn't you?

If you were being followed and felt threatened, why didn't you use your Cell Phone to call the police? Oh, that's right, because you have a violent nature and figured you could just beat the crap out of the little guy that you didn't think would have a gun or a means to defend himself - like when you beat the school bus driver, or when you stole things from people that you figured were not home or defenseless.

[lumpster]

Leroy face it.. Zimmerman is guilty of murder she stalked, confronted, and murdered that child..and now we know that he had chance after chance to walk away and leave it up to police..

[DarknLadyJedi]

Lump, got to disagree with you here. The most GZ is guilty of is negligence for not properly identifying himself.

Yes, he followed TM and then got out of his car and followed him. He then lost him and took a wrong turn, he was asked by the operator to give them a current address to his location. Because of that wrong turn and being asked to get the current address he ended up returning to his car by a different route than the one he took following TM. Because TM didn't know the neighborhood well he ended up going down the path towards GZ who was returning to his car.

From GZ's point of view TM ambushed him on the way back to his car, from TM's point of view the guy following him managed to get in front of him and was blocking his way home.

Both sides felt threatened. Based on TM's experience as a Miami gang banger he probably did throw the first punch, with the full intention of throwing a few punches and leaving. At least until he felt the gun.

At that point I dont blame TM for going after the gun, he was probably scared for his life if he let the guy following him up with a gun. I don't blame GZ for thinking that the guy he thought was a neighborhood gang member was going to kill him when he went for his gun.

This was an accident. Plain and simple. A very tragic accident that could have been avoided in several places by both parties.

[dicke811]

FBI: No racial bias in Trayvon Martin shooting

Discovery documents released yesterday shows that the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin shooting case has a difficult task in front of her. The presumed motive for the shooting, which defendant George Zimmerman claims was necessary to save his life, was racism. The FBI investigation ruled out that motive,

The FBI found no racial bias behind George Zimmerman’s shooting of Miami Gardens teen Trayvon Martin, according to dozens of documents related to the case released Thursday.

The second round of discovery documents released by prosecutors include reports from the FBI, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and State Attorney’s Office as well as photos of the crime scene, aerial photos, police calls and surveillance video related to the shooting.

Zimmerman, 28, is charged with second-degree murder for the killing of Martin, 17, in a Sanford gated community in February. He claims he shot Martin in self-defense.

The documents from the State Attorney’s Office include memorandums of interviews between investigators and witnesses, family members and officers who responded to the scene and worked on the case.

[Leroy]

Leroy face it.. Zimmerman is guilty of murder she stalked, confronted, and murdered that child..and now we know that he had chance after chance to walk away and leave it up to police..

Lumpy, you've called him a killer since before you even read the statements, you even fell for the lies told about the 911 call, you even fell for the lies told about GZ not having any wounds, you continue to fall for the lies - and I suspect it's because you're actually a racist yourself.

The facts show that a local gang was increasingly violent in the neighborhood, that they dressed like TM did... We also know that TM was a violent thug with a criminal record and his gang typical comments, signs, actions are clearly known now - he own video shows this.

We also know that none of the blacks offering a reward for Zimmerman DEAD or alive have even been questioned by police, none have been arrested.

We also know that Zimmerman didn't STALK and had worked with the police on these things before, in fact, the police do mention how GZ was instrumental in criminals being caught in the neighborhood....

So, you do know why TM was there, right - Because HIS MOTHER COULD NOT CONTROL HIS VIOLENCE OR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY and sent him to live with his father for a little while. You don't really think anything changed concerning that, do you?

[DarknLadyJedi]

I suspect it's because you're actually a racist yourself.

Lumpster definitely is not a racist. We all have different opinions on this issue based on different knowledge of what took place. There is no reason to insult other members because they hold a different opinion.

[BobToolong]

Seems Lumpster, Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton all think that because this kid was black he couldn't be in the wrong.

[BilboBagend]

It seems like many here believe that since Zimmerman was carrying a gun, and stalked a black minor male wearing a hoody and was told by authorities to stand down there is no way Zimmerman could be in the wrong.

I will wait for the jury.

[IHATELIBERALS]

The ‘THUG” had it coming. It was just a matter of time before the piece of shit met his destiny!


And yes many people view Zimmerman as a hero, especially those who have had to tolerate thugs like Trayvon Martin and his “brothers” who have terrorized neighborhoods for years!

[Leroy]

It seems like many here believe that since Zimmerman was carrying a gun, and stalked a black minor male wearing a hoody and was told by authorities to stand down there is no way Zimmerman could be in the wrong.

I will wait for the jury.

Maybe you could show where "Stalked" was indicated?

Maybe you could show where the authorities told GZ to "Stand Down" or even to stop following TM?

Yea, you can't do either because we've already listened to the 911 call and they didn't tell him to stop following TM.

Maybe you could discuss the truth and even TM's thug/gang/violent/criminal status and how he was sent to live with his dad and why - yea, I didn't think you would.

[lumpster]

Leroy I noticed you're avoiding my thread about the 71 year old who used the stand your ground laws for their intended need.. He pulled his consealled weapon out and shot the bad guys but didn't chase them out of the building. Shot them both and saved the people in the cafe..

At least you could comment on how I supported the proper used of both laws..

[DarknLadyJedi]

I would like to point out that while Zimmerman may be claiming the stand your ground defense it doesn't apply in this instance. Self defense does still apply and is a completely different issue.

Had Martin actually gotten a hold of Zimmerman's gun and used it Martin would have been able to claim the stand you ground defense.

[PainfulTruth]

Lumpster the Dumpster has made another of his famous and wildly inaccurate predictions. As Lumpster has been wrong 100% of the time so far, I am putting all my money on an acquittal.
In record time.

How's that info on the North Korean sub torpedoing the Gulf Oil rig coming along Lumpy? We've been waiting for you to reveal all.

[rockclimber]

I find the whole stad your ground legislation awkward. It's almost like being tried informally aquitted and then months later dragged back to be recharged and retried. The first determination wasn't a trial but it had th effect of one. Anyone who uses that defence has to live in fear of beng dragged back into a court later to stand trial. I don't have a solution but it is troubling whether you believe Zimmerman's defemnce or not. I don't like Federal retrials either. I think there should be some sort of protection from being retried twice and using the Federal courts to retry people when some constituency doesn't like the outcome.

RC

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Leroy]

Leroy I noticed you're avoiding my thread about the 71 year old who used the stand your ground laws for their intended need.. He pulled his consealled weapon out and shot the bad guys but didn't chase them out of the building. Shot them both and saved the people in the cafe..

At least you could comment on how I supported the proper used of both laws..

Lumpy, when you're on the accurate and factual side there is nothing wrong with you, but, as you've commented so many time, you've posted lies and untruths about the actions of GZ. You've made claims that were completely invalidated by the 911 call audio, by the injuries to GZ, etc... The fact is that TM was a thug in life, a violent person, a druggie, a thief, and appeared to either be in or want to be in a gang of some sort. He was only in GZ's neighborhood because his mother had sent him to live with his father because SHE COULD NOT CONTROL HIS CRIMINAL/VIOLENT ACTIONS.

When you look at the truth and facts, without bias, GZ is innocent and should be supported by the masses for the pain he's suffering because of a violent thug attacking him and forcing him to defend himself and all the pain it will bring him to have to be forced to kill someone in self-defense.

If you remember, I said that SYG didn't apply in this case, but SELF-DEFENSE certainly does.

[Grog]

Leroy, according to Zim, the shooting was "God's Will."

Does that qualify him for "religious zealot" status?

[PainfulTruth]

I predicted an acquittal for Zimmerman. I must modify that prediction slightly.
There is a very good chance that the judge will throw the entire case out before it ever gets to a jury.
Either way, Lumpy will be humiliated by his wildly inaccurate prediction.
Again.
However, this will not deter him from going all in on the next wild ass internet rumor, the sort of thing he is so famous for around these parts.

[wildjack]

Lumpster definitely is not a racist.

Thanks for the laugh DLJ.

Lumpster's racism has been prevalent since "no limit nigga" was killed.

[lumpster]

I have a thread up right now where I'm defending the proper use of the Stand your ground law, and the right to self defense. It's up on here right now and you guys refuse to post to it.. What's even worst.. It's a thread where a white guy is shooting two black kids and I still side with the old white guy.. Yet you say I'm wrong and you call me crazy.. You even call me racist.. But none of your comments can stand becasue I do believe and you all know that I do in those laws..

You all also know that Zimmerman broke the law, He stalked, confronted, and murdered that kid.. Even after repeated request to stand down and allow the police to handle it...

[lumpster]

For my buddy DarkJedi... I don't know if you've ever seen me on this side before.. But it gets wild and we talk a lot of crap.. No one here is serious it's all for fun I've known these guys for years and it's always been the same.. we do it for jokes and fun only.. The language gets kinda rough but all these guys are cool..

[Leroy]

You all also know that Zimmerman broke the law, He stalked, confronted, and murdered that kid.. Even after repeated request to stand down and allow the police to handle it...

Lumpy, how come you can't show where GZ "Stalked" anyone and you can't show where he was asked/told to "Stand Down"?

It's that simple, the 911 call complete refutes your claims - he was NEVER told to stand down, was never told to not follow the suspicious person, and following a suspected criminal one time is NOT stalking by any means.

You continue to show your hate and stupidity by ignoring the entire 911 call.

[lumpster]

You all also know that Zimmerman broke the law, He stalked, confronted, and murdered that kid.. Even after repeated request to stand down and allow the police to handle it...

Lumpy, how come you can't show where GZ "Stalked" anyone and you can't show where he was asked/told to "Stand Down"?

It's that simple, the 911 call complete refutes your claims - he was NEVER told to stand down, was never told to not follow the suspicious person, and following a suspected criminal one time is NOT stalking by any means.

You continue to show your hate and stupidity by ignoring the entire 911 call.

Leroy it's all in the police report.. The police wanted to arrest but were told no by an lazy DA.. The moment the spotlight was shined on the case and they looked at it they knew he stalk,confronted and murdered an innocent child who was only going to the store for snacks. You're the one who needs to prove to me that he didn't.. The 911 operator told him not to follow him.. He got out of his car while on patrol which in the rules of their neighorhood watch he's not allowed to be armed while on patrol and he's not allowed to comfront anyone. He broke so many rules and laws it's not funny..

[BilboBagend]

The overarching reasoning of liar leroy and all his type is their desire to retain the opportunity to murder/kill at will based on their paranoid suspicions. All their rhetoric adds up to nothing more. They don't give a shit about Zimmerman and his plight. They just want his opportunity to remain available to them.

[Leroy]

Leroy it's all in the police report.. The police wanted to arrest but were told no by an lazy DA.. The moment the spotlight was shined on the case and they looked at it they knew he stalk,confronted and murdered an innocent child who was only going to the store for snacks. You're the one who needs to prove to me that he didn't.. The 911 operator told him not to follow him.. He got out of his car while on patrol which in the rules of their neighorhood watch he's not allowed to be armed while on patrol and he's not allowed to comfront anyone. He broke so many rules and laws it's not funny..

Lumpy, if you listed to the 911 call, the operator did NOT tell Zimmerman to not follow him, she specifically stated "We don't need you to do that", which is NOTHING like saying "DON'T DO THAT" - listen for yourself - you are completely wrong.

Getting out of the vehicle does not mean "stalking", and getting out of his car to follow a SUSPICIOUS PERSON THAT YOU'RE REPORTING TO THE POLICE is not illegal or "stalking" either.

He didn't break any rules, certainly didn't break any laws - he's permitted to carry a weapon in public, he's permitted to follow any suspicious person that he's reporting to the police (just like anyone else is), he's permitted (as the 911 operator indicated) to follow the suspicious person (just not necessary).....

Where is your saying that TM didn't have permission to violently assault a person that had not touched him, that had not threatened him?

[BilboBagend]

LOL, morons can't tell the difference between style and substance.

You might have been correct if Zimmerman had not politely been requested to stand down at least 4 times. Yes, they failed to clearly command Zimmerman. They were polite to a private citizen.

It still changes nother about Zimmerman nor his would be supporters. One need ignore the clear facts to support Zimmerman's actions.

[Big]

You would have tried to get a blowjob from the little dead hoodlum.......

Tell The Truth Miss.Dildo !

[Leroy]

Notice how neither Dildo or Lumpy will quote, word for word, the "stand down" commands they claim the 911 operator gave GZ?

Neither of them are willing to address their lies, they just keep spewing them.

[DarknLadyJedi]

I find the whole stad your ground legislation awkward. It's almost like being tried informally aquitted and then months later dragged back to be recharged and retried. The first determination wasn't a trial but it had th effect of one. Anyone who uses that defence has to live in fear of beng dragged back into a court later to stand trial. I don't have a solution but it is troubling whether you believe Zimmerman's defemnce or not. I don't like Federal retrials either. I think there should be some sort of protection from being retried twice and using the Federal courts to retry people when some constituency doesn't like the outcome.

RC

What the stand your ground law did was to create a system where a clear case of self defense would allow the on scene officers to not make an arrest. Previously since only the SA court make or deny charges people were arrested in almost all cases of self defense.
Now the police can make a judgement call and release a person for using self defense.

The stand your ground defense ONLY applies if you are approached, unprovoked, in a place you are legally allowed to be and going about lawful business, and have fear for your life.

While GZ may have been in fear for his life, and he was doing everything legal, his actions provoked the altercation between TM and himself, nullifying the SYG defense, but still allowing for normal self defense.

TM on the other hand could have easily used the SYG defense had the outcome been reversed.

[BilboBagend]

Aw, liar leroy wants all the old shit quoted yet again, ad nauseum. Sorry. asked and answered, ad nauseum. It's on the tape. The transcript is available and clear. You have a well know habit of just denying the most obvious truth anyway, liar leroy.

No more of your bullshit liar leroy. You are just like the mass murders ion the news, an attention whore.

[Leroy]

Notice how Dildo still can't quote the 911 operator.

It's amazing how a person being told "we don't need you to do that" somehow is suppose to me "Don't even fucking consider doing that or you're become a stalker and we'll send the police to get you" according to Dildo.

Dildo misses that one message clearly leaves the onus of liability on the person on the cell phone instead of the liability on the city/911 call center.

The fact remains, following a suspicious person is not illegal by any law in the USA.

[BilboBagend]

Yes, language is complex and unclear, but not in this case. In this case it is simply subject to misinterpretation by people like liar leroy who will intentionally confuse polite with lack of direction.

[Leroy]

You really are a troll.

The language of "we don't need you to do that" is very clear - it means proceed at your own risk, we're not permitted to tell you to follow anyone because we would be liable if they harmed YOU.

Dumbass.

[Boff]

Martin was profiled by Zimmerman; Martin was NOT racially profiled by Zimmerman. He was identified as an unfamiliar individual within a gated community behaving in a furtive manner. Following Martin while reporting his behavior to the police was not stalking; it was necessary to determine which direction Martin went when he disappeared around a building, the better to inform the police where to find him. Martin was "visiting" his father in Sanford during the school year because he had been suspended from his Miami school for being in an "unauthorized" area, in possession of women's jewelery which he was keeping for a person he could/would not identify. In short, he matched Zimmerman's extemporaneous characterization to the dispatcher as a "fucking punk". Given the statistics of black on black murder, Zimmerman's slaying of this "innocent black child" not only saved Zimmerman's life, but probably also the life of some really innocent black child in the future. Martin's death was good riddance to black rubbish.

[BilboBagend]

You are right liar leroy. The language is clear. It's polite human talk for "back off". Especially clear when repeated at least 4 times.

[Leroy]

You are right liar leroy. The language is clear. It's polite human talk for "back off". Especially clear when repeated at least 4 times.

I see that you're still afraid to post/quote where he was TOLD to "STAND DOWN".

[BilboBagend]

"afraid"?

More drivel from liar leroy.

[Leroy]

Audio at 01:18 "somethings wrong with him"....

Audio at 1:24 = he's got something in his hands - GZ
Audio at 1:29 = "let me know if he does something else" - 911 operator
Audio at 1:46 = "Which entrance is that that he's heading towards" - 911 operator
Audio at 1:55 = "Are you following him" - 911 operator
Audio at 1:56 = "Yes" - GZ
Audio at 1:57 = "Ok we don't need you to do that" - 911 operator
Audio at 1:59 = "Ok" - GZ
Audio at 2:09 = "He ran" - GZ

Audio at 2:20 = "Do you want to meet with the officer" - 911 Operator
Audio at 2:30 = "Do you want to just meet with him right by the mail boxes then" - 911 Operator
Audio at 2:33 = "Yea, that's fine" - GZ

and so it goes, GZ was NOT ordered to stand down by the 911 operator, he was not told to NOT follow, and it was clear that he was going to meet the cop and that Martin was running away at one point....

Neither the audio or the transcript of the audio have anyone asking GZ to not follow the Suspicious Person. Plain English, Simple, Easy, no mistaking it - he was not told/asked to stop following, he was only told that they (police) didn't "NEED" him to do that.

He didn't break any laws by following a suspected criminal.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogal ... von-Martin

http://phoebe53.*************/2012/03/2 ... on-martin/

[Leroy]

I see that the idiots can't refute the actual audio and actual transcript information when they are confronted with it - it's a shame they are either too racist or hate filled to admit the truth and facts.

[Grog]

Leroy, what do you think the 911 operator meant when they said "Ok we don't need you to do that?"

[Leroy]

Leroy, what do you think the 911 operator meant when they said "Ok we don't need you to do that?"

I think the operator was stating the tried and true LIABILITY statement meant to absolve the city/state/call center of any liability if the "Suspicious" person attacks the LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN DOING SOMETHING THAT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

In other words, the 911 operator can't just say "Please keep following the suspicious person because the cops almost never catch them when they get there many minutes later, and you're not following them." because of liberals/progressives that would then sue the 911 operator/city/state because the suspicious person attacked the innocent civilian in order to keep from being exposed to the police.

[Grog]

So, Leroy, by saying "We don't need you to do that," the operator really meant "We DO need you to do that but we have to talk in code."

I'm sure that makes perfect sense in your world, Leroy. Seriously.

[Leroy]

So, Leroy, by saying "We don't need you to do that," the operator really meant "We DO need you to do that but we have to talk in code."

I'm sure that makes perfect sense in your world, Leroy. Seriously.

I think the operator was quite clear in stating "NEED", as it was never stated that "we DON'T want you to do that" or "DON'T DO THAT" or "DON'T FOLLOW".

Any reasonable person would understand the risk and that the operator, city, state, can not condone innocent citizens taking risks when following suspicious people.

Are you liberals really such cowards that you have to lie to yourselves to believe that he was told NOT TO FOLLOW, because you don't want to be asked WHY DIDN'T YOU follow that person, the person that might have turned out to have killed your neighbor or friend or wife, when it might not have happened if you had any balls.

[Grog]

I guess that makes sense, Leroy.

When a law enforcement agent says something, it is open to interpretation as to what they really mean. Good, law-abiding citizens should decide for themselves what they believe the suggestion means and then act according to their understanding of what the suggestion actually means.

Sounds fair and reasonable.

[Leroy]

I guess that makes sense, Leroy.

When a law enforcement agent says something, it is open to interpretation as to what they really mean. Good, law-abiding citizens should decide for themselves what they believe the suggestion means and then act according to their understanding of what the suggestion actually means.

Sounds fair and reasonable.

What part was "Open to interpretation"? It seems clear to most intelligent people, those that are not second guessing what the 911 operator meant, it was clear, we don't need you to do something, but we've not asked you to stop if you want to keep doing it.

You even call it a "Suggestion", but that's where you fail basic english, a suggestion is not a command, not an order, not a directive, it's just an option.