The Amateur Message Boards of the World Famous VoyeurWeb

When Igor left and republished the past few months' worth of VW/RC/HC content on the new site that he is affiliated with, we were given the legalistic justification that the VW Terms and Conditions for submission had been changed earlier this year to include "yoursexytits.com" (which just happens to be a part of the new VC entity).

Over the weekend, Igor opened a new site, "Igor's Hall of Fame," which, according to him "has been fully restored since 2005. We are still waiting for the years prior..might take some weeks or so."

And he further promises that virtually the entire VW/RC/HC archive since inception will eventually be republished with VC logos:

Regarding more content on top of my HoF? Well, we went thru the inventory of the former VW network this morning, and it looks like we have most of it. Almost 95% of the original submissions (before processed) back to 1998. Including the data! Data means: Not just plain jpg and vids, but also the model name, story part and and. [snip] Those will be put on display after we are done with our HUGE To-Do list.

Implicitly, he acknowledges that he does not have the right to publish this material, saying: "We don't want to put any image or video under VC which has a VW logo." But if a VW logo would make it illegal to republish the material, how does the absence of a logo make any difference, when the only reason it isn't there is that Igor himself kept backups of original submissions prior to processing with the logo, diverting them from the publication process that contributors fully and rightly expected. That is like saying an auto factory employee is within his rights to take any car that doesn't have the auto company decals on it yet. Or, in this case, to divert cars systematically from the decal process and then take thousands of them. It is patently absurd.

So if you are a past contributor to this site, at any time since 1998, you should be aware that all of your material is at risk of being republished on a site that you cannot possibly have agreed to have it published on. If you object to this, you should send a takedown letter to VC that explicitly includes yoursexytits.com, IgorsHOF.com, and any other non-VoyeurWeb site that may be developed under the control of "Igor" (******* *****) using material submitted to VoyeurWeb under Terms and Conditions that reserved the copyright to you as content producer and restricted the publication rights to the VW network.

In addition, as a way of publicizing our refusal to have our past content republished elsewhere against our will and without our permission, and to try to pressure Igor to back down, I have started a thread on the ******** BB on this subject. Since virtually only Igor acolytes and sycophants are posting there currently, it is giving people (and maybe Igor) a false impression that most contributors are supportive of what he has done. Those of us who are not should at least make ourselves heard. If you have already or are planning to require them to take down your material, I would urge you to go over and help build that pressure by adding to the thread. It may not change Igor's actions, but it will at least give pause to those who don't seem to quite realize what Igor has done.

housemd wrote:Seems to be some cunfusion as to who owned what?

Now how can a Puny employee end up with all that stuff

All the way back to 1998?

Seems odd to me.

Also seems odd that VW hasn't published anything.

My kid could put up a better site in less time.

I'm not confused, but maybe it's just you. It goes with the odd feeling perhaps. Penicillin might clear that up. Glad you have a smart kid. Must take after its mother. Lucky kid.

rugrollers wrote:Long useful story

Thanks rug rollers, that is important news. I luckily have no contributions to defend, but agree that past contributors might be well advised to take action.

Very bad that these un-watermarked pictures were up for grabs by any person involved with VW in the past. Let's hope new management takes better care of that when the site goes live again. Hopefully the new deadlines that were mentioned of roughly next Sunday will be achieved.

This is a good post. The archives back to 98 are from Funbags, data he most likely stole during the buildup to his departure. It is pretty clear by now that the VW data was stolen and now is being republished (without permission). I looked at the new site and it is obvious to me that the posts there are recompiled pic collections from VW archives posted under made up posters names to look like they are from the outside... NOT.

Sleazy. Underhanded. dishonest. Welcome to the internet folks.

housemd wrote: Seems to be some cunfusion as to who owned what?

IMO, anybody who posts anything to any website does so knowing it may show up anywhere else around the world. If they don't understand this, they're stupid. There is nothing stopping me (other than integrity) from doing a right-click/save on anything I see on the Internet and posting it to my own site.

housemd wrote: Now how can a Puny employee end up with all that stuff

By not having any integrity.

housemd wrote: All the way back to 1998?

The time frame has nothing to do with it.

housemd wrote:Seems odd to me.

What seems odd to you? That someone with access to rolling backups of a website that go back 14 years stole them and used them to create his own site? Seems odd to me, too. But only in the sense that it was a dick-move compounded by the fact that he wiped out the existing site before letting the door hit him in the ass on the way out. At which point, it may or may not have escalated from a dick-move, to a criminal move, but that's for the courts to sort out. I'm not a lawyer.

housemd wrote:Also seems odd that VW hasn't published anything.

Not true. VW has a splash page that hardly ever updates and a spokesperson who's more intent on reporting about party organizing and the demise of MFF than she is about keeping folks updated as to the day-to-day goings-on. What started out as a 4-7 day down-time has now been extended by another 7 days. Also, even though the spokesperson claims to have seen the 'new' site, and that it's gonna be spectacular, apparently she hasn't even thought to ask the developers to upload JUST the new 'portal' (if you will) page so people can see that something's actually being done. Wouldn't matter if none of the links work. I imagine it would be nice for paying members to actually *SEE* that something's being done instead of reading (thus-far) empty promises. I've got no dog (money) in this fight but if I did, I'd be pretty annoyed at the way this whole down-time is being handled by VW. Seems like a whole lot of misdirection and stalling if ya ask me. The other thing that bothers me is the way they are handling refunds. The spokesperson keeps saying to email her and she'll take care of it, and in the next post(s) she says she's got 35-bajillion emails to go through so it might take a while. What would it take for any DECENT provider to set up another G-Mail (really?) address just to handle such issues? To me, as an outsider with no axe to grind, things smell like shit on BOTH ends of this mess.

housemd wrote:My kid could put up a better site in less time.

You talking about VW, or VC? Either way, you'd be right. :lol:

Think about this for a second. Voyeurweb is asking you to submit questions via Gmail. That, in and of itself, shows you they don't have complete control (or aren't sure about the security) of their own mail servers.

Now think about this. What's stopping me (other than integrity) from creating a Gmail account called VWCCdisputes@gmail.com, posting here in this forum, and telling you I'm Katherine and I need your name, address, SS# (if you live in the US) your cc number, etc. before I can issue you a refund ... errr, steal your identity.

housemd wrote:Seems to be some cunfusion as to who owned what?

The owner of the web domains owned the site. According to Igor JA had nothing to do with the sites, so why didn't the actual owner just have the passwords changed after JA changed them? I seriously doubt that if Igor was the registrar he would be stupid enough to not just call GoDaddy and say "Hi, my site got hijacked, I'm so and so the registrar, please set the master passwords to XYZ, thank you"

housemd wrote:Now how can a Puny employee end up with all that stuff

All the way back to 1998?

Because he had time to plan it all out and make copies.

housemd wrote:Seems odd to me.

Also seems odd that VW hasn't published anything.

My kid could put up a better site in less time.

Does your kid want to make a couple hundred bucks? Seriously, if I could get a site together before I thought VW would be back I would do it in a heartbeat and lure everyone away from both sites the legit way.

chancelot wrote:IMO, anybody who posts anything to any website does so knowing it may show up anywhere else around the world. If they don't understand this, they're stupid. There is nothing stopping me (other than integrity) from doing a right-click/save on anything I see on the Internet and posting it to my own site.

And you would be violating copyright. The same way someone who goes into a movie and records the entire thing on a small camera is violating. Just because a picture is there doesn't mean it is morally right to take it any more than it is legal.

It's really no different to steal intellectual property than it is to steal real property, just easier. Would you take a candy bar from a store without paying? All a matter of ethics and legality.

DarknLadyJedi wrote:

chancelot wrote:IMO, anybody who posts anything to any website does so knowing it may show up anywhere else around the world. If they don't understand this, they're stupid. There is nothing stopping me (other than integrity) from doing a right-click/save on anything I see on the Internet and posting it to my own site.

And you would be violating copyright. The same way someone who goes into a movie and records the entire thing on a small camera is violating. Just because a picture is there doesn't mean it is morally right to take it any more than it is legal.

It's really no different to steal intellectual property than it is to steal real property, just easier. Would you take a candy bar from a store without paying? All a matter of ethics and legality.

Yes. I would be violating copyright. But it would be YOUR copyright, not the website you uploaded it to. As I've stated before, it is up to YOU to track it all down and ask that it be removed. Good luck with that impossibility. The only thing different in THIS particular case is that you know where it is. (VC) ... but you have no way of knowing EVERYWHERE ELSE it is. And you never will. The bottom line is, don't post anything to the Internet you don't want the WHOLE WORLD to see. As I stated in a previous post, once it's out there, it's out there, and can never be retrieved as you have no control over what unscrupulous people will do with it.

chancelot wrote:Yes. I would be violating copyright. But it would be YOUR copyright, not the website you uploaded it to. As I've stated before, it is up to YOU to track it all down and ask that it be removed. Good luck with that impossibility. The only thing different in THIS particular case is that you know where it is. (VC) ... but you have no way of knowing EVERYWHERE ELSE it is. And you never will. The bottom line is, don't post anything to the Internet you don't want the WHOLE WORLD to see. As I stated in a previous post, once it's out there, it's out there, and can never be retrieved as you have no control over what unscrupulous people will do with it.

Ah, so yes, in that context you are correct. Just like in most cases casual theft in stores is never caught most copyright violations are never caught. But when they are they should be pursued. Especially when it is such a vagrant violation of trust.

So, I know that some of you aren't fans of MFF... I just wanted to also state on here that many of my images from MFF are now up on Igors Hall of Fame - the content I posted on MFF is clearly, unequivocally copyrighted by me. If you haven't gone thru the process of actually getting photos copyrighted you are in theory the copyright holder, but in court you wouldn't be able to make a case or collect a dime... For those who aren't familiar with the process, you need to file this form http://www.copyright.gov/forms/formvas.pdf with the library of congress, with a copy of each image. So, each shoot I do, I use a batch sizing program to make smaller copies of the images and submit them for copyright.

DarknLadyJedi wrote: Does your kid want to make a couple hundred bucks? Seriously, if I could get a site together before I thought VW would be back I would do it in a heartbeat and lure everyone away from both sites the legit way.

If it were only a matter of the technical work/coding, so would I (and could I). But the hassle:
- setting up/registering a company
- registering a domain (via proxy)
- setting up (bank) accounts and accounting
- dealing with 3rd party cc company's, PCI compliance
- establishing an offshore holding to ensure you don't get burnt for violating some wacky US or European decency laws
- getting trustworthy people in place to help with commenting, blurring, moderating
- dealing with A-holes, naggers, numb nuts (well, basically dealing with people) ;-)

It's just a big head-ache really. Makes you wonder why anyone would want to run an adult site :-D

cerebio wrote: It's just a big head-ache really. Makes you wonder why anyone would want to run an adult site

Owner of adult site not look for porn, porn look for owner of adult site.

Sorry, had to say it.

Plus the money, although neither Igor nor JA seem to be hurting for that.

This whole thing has been interesting, even if also fustrating.
I agree that Igor is a scumbad and asshole in this matter....
But follow some of the suggetions here, "Adm" and let us know what is going on.
It seems clear to me that Igor left some damaging thing behind, and that they are producing major problems in VW and RC getting back on line.

Vixen, they are keeping people updated, but honestly they are doing a poor job of it. The info is scattered all over the threads instead of compiled, and what is compiled allows for comments which drown out the official information.

VW should be back up no later than Sunday the 24th.

One question, if Igor damaged the site or left booby traps then why doesn't the admin folks come right out and explain exactly what was done? Or, are they afraid of litigation for libel and slander since I am sure lawyers are now involved.

housemd wrote:I guess you guys have self appointed yourselves the smartest of the bunch.

I can no longer compete.

Bye Bye

I don't even know what that means, Dr. House, but given the utterly one-sided tenor of your involvement, sayonara sounds just fine.

lmatnme wrote:One question, if Igor damaged the site or left booby traps then why doesn't the admin folks come right out and explain exactly what was done? Or, are they afraid of litigation for libel and slander since I am sure lawyers are now involved.

We have come right out and told everyone exactly what was done. Truth is an absolute defense to any suit involving slander or libel. We have nothing to be afraid of. We have told you guys what happened but we are just not fixated on it. As both criminal and civil prosecution ensues against *****, we will have provide updates under a section called "VW forcing ***** to face his crimes" I do not where you got these ideas that we are not coming out and talking about what was done. Some have said we have talked about it too much that even I, a computer non technical person should just shut up, stop talking to you all, and go and try to get the site back up running.

yerdsyerds wrote:So, I know that some of you aren't fans of MFF... I just wanted to also state on here that many of my images from MFF are now up on Igors Hall of Fame - the content I posted on MFF is clearly, unequivocally copyrighted by me. If you haven't gone thru the process of actually getting photos copyrighted you are in theory the copyright holder, but in court you wouldn't be able to make a case or collect a dime... For those who aren't familiar with the process, you need to file this form http://www.copyright.gov/forms/formvas.pdf with the library of congress, with a copy of each image. So, each shoot I do, I use a batch sizing program to make smaller copies of the images and submit them for copyright.

This is an interesting angle. Federal law prohibits the use, dissemination, publication of copyrighted material and makes such a crime punishable by law by up to 10 year prison term. I did not realize that there was another angle to approach and file a grievance for copyrighted material.

it is such a vagrant violation of trust

Good God - the beggars and tramps have a trust code?

It's "flagrant violation" ... "flagrant".

DarknLadyJedi wrote:

chancelot wrote:Yes. I would be violating copyright. But it would be YOUR copyright, not the website you uploaded it to. As I've stated before, it is up to YOU to track it all down and ask that it be removed. Good luck with that impossibility. The only thing different in THIS particular case is that you know where it is. (VC) ... but you have no way of knowing EVERYWHERE ELSE it is. And you never will. The bottom line is, don't post anything to the Internet you don't want the WHOLE WORLD to see. As I stated in a previous post, once it's out there, it's out there, and can never be retrieved as you have no control over what unscrupulous people will do with it.

Ah, so yes, in that context you are correct. Just like in most cases casual theft in stores is never caught most copyright violations are never caught. But when they are they should be pursued. Especially when it is such a vagrant violation of trust.

I think you meant flagrant, but vagrant may also apply as it pertains to "Igor" in this case. :-) As to violation of trust? Look how many former VW regs are posting on the VC site right now. They don't care. But I digress. The point is there's no such thing as 'trust' when it comes to posting ANYTHING to the Internet no matter where you post it. Hell. For that matter you can't even email explicit pics to "friends" without having to worry about where they will wind up should you have a falling-out in the future. My only point was that once you post something to the Internet, you no longer have *any* control over where it winds up regardless of any promises of security made by any website. The bottom line is, if it's visable on your screen, you can steal it. So don't post anything you would be embarrassed about the whole world seeing.

Mark: You are a pimp for the theives that caused VW and RC to crash.
Shame on you.
Yes, there are having problems getting the sites up again, but that is understandable.
I just hate to see Mark, or anyone, wanting to punish VW and not the jerks who shut it down in order to make money themselves.

If you pay any credence to the outpouring from Housemd then you really have a problem

MikiDora wrote:

it is such a vagrant violation of trust

Good God - the beggars and tramps have a trust code?

It's "flagrant violation" ... "flagrant".

Wow, I misspelled something.

DarknLadyJedi wrote:

MikiDora wrote:

it is such a vagrant violation of trust

Good God - the beggars and tramps have a trust code?

It's "flagrant violation" ... "flagrant".

Wow, I misspelled something.

Boy, I'm in meetings all day and look what happens while I'm away -- Jedi misspells something! And on MY thread!

Promise you won't do it again?

rugrollers wrote:

DarknLadyJedi wrote: Wow, I misspelled something.

Boy, I'm in meetings all day and look what happens while I'm away -- Jedi misspells something! And on MY thread!

Promise you won't do it again?

Sorry, no promises. But I am surprised it took almost 17 hours for someone to notice it.

marks wrote:WOW! pimp! think of all the money i could have made in the last thirty years!!!
damn another revenue stream shot all to hell. lol

Please move this to a different thread. Much appreciated,

I certainly had no negative thoughts about igor previously.... but i sure do now.
Mark, you are just a shill for those who damaged VW and RC, and I still maintain they did it for money, not some obscure "we can make it better" theory.
They loved VW so much they could not stand by, they just had to steal what they could, and aim to put the site out of business.
I, for one, remain loyal to VW.
HUmmmm. I wonder is "Mark" is actually Igor?

Interesting that that new site, ********, is not letting anyone post anything even slighty negative abou themselves.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that Mark (and several other user names) are actually Igor.
A lot of the critical things they post on these BB's include stuff that would only be know by Igor or a close associate.
My conclusion: still the same. Those who opened a new site and damage RC and VW when they could, are just dirtbags.
Operating out of foreign shores, one supposes they will avoid any financial damage from what is clearly a criminal enerprise.

VixenHotwife wrote:Interesting that that new site, ********, is not letting anyone post anything even slighty negative abou themselves.

To be fair, this is simply untrue. Go read my posts over there. I even started a "Thread for those objecting to copyright infringement." I had hoped some folks from here would go over and put in a word of support on that thread, in order to show them that many of us are unhappy about it, but maybe people are afraid to go over there?

If people are being banned it is actually over here, although I have to say that the ones I have seen (housemd, cheapprick, marks, maybe redcloudslover) were really just making themselves obnoxious in order to muddy the waters. Days on end of that sort of conduct is probably reasonable grounds for banishment on any BB. I do wish they would stop premoderating most people's posts over here, though -- it slows things down and disrupts the discussion. Why not restrict premoderating to those few who have proven themselves unable to handle this maturely?

EllieRidgid wrote:I am a bit concerned, it was brought to my attention that the first page was done using microsoft word?

With all the materials available at GoDaddy who in their right mind would use

Word?

Word?

Hmmm, good catch. No idea. But then I didn't even know Word could make web pages.

rugrollers wrote:When Igor left and republished the past few months' worth of VW/RC/HC content on the new site that he is affiliated with, we were given the legalistic justification that the VW Terms and Conditions for submission had been changed earlier this year to include "yoursexytits.com" (which just happens to be a part of the new VC entity).

Over the weekend, Igor opened a new site, "Igor's Hall of Fame," which, according to him "has been fully restored since 2005. We are still waiting for the years prior..might take some weeks or so."

And he further promises that virtually the entire VW/RC/HC archive since inception will eventually be republished with VC logos:

Regarding more content on top of my HoF? Well, we went thru the inventory of the former VW network this morning, and it looks like we have most of it. Almost 95% of the original submissions (before processed) back to 1998. Including the data! Data means: Not just plain jpg and vids, but also the model name, story part and and. [snip] Those will be put on display after we are done with our HUGE To-Do list.

Implicitly, he acknowledges that he does not have the right to publish this material, saying: "We don't want to put any image or video under VC which has a VW logo." But if a VW logo would make it illegal to republish the material, how does the absence of a logo make any difference, when the only reason it isn't there is that Igor himself kept backups of original submissions prior to processing with the logo, diverting them from the publication process that contributors fully and rightly expected. That is like saying an auto factory employee is within his rights to take any car that doesn't have the auto company decals on it yet. Or, in this case, to divert cars systematically from the decal process and then take thousands of them. It is patently absurd.

So if you are a past contributor to this site, at any time since 1998, you should be aware that all of your material is at risk of being republished on a site that you cannot possibly have agreed to have it published on. If you object to this, you should send a takedown letter to VC that explicitly includes yoursexytits.com, IgorsHOF.com, and any other non-VoyeurWeb site that may be developed under the control of "Igor" (******* *****) using material submitted to VoyeurWeb under Terms and Conditions that reserved the copyright to you as content producer and restricted the publication rights to the VW network.

In addition, as a way of publicizing our refusal to have our past content republished elsewhere against our will and without our permission, and to try to pressure Igor to back down, I have started a thread on the ******** BB on this subject. Since virtually only Igor acolytes and sycophants are posting there currently, it is giving people (and maybe Igor) a false impression that most contributors are supportive of what he has done. Those of us who are not should at least make ourselves heard. If you have already or are planning to require them to take down your material, I would urge you to go over and help build that pressure by adding to the thread. It may not change Igor's actions, but it will at least give pause to those who don't seem to quite realize what Igor has done.

With or without the logo, as you so noted, those pics are copyrighted to VW because people who posted them posted them believing they were posting the pics on VW. There is no ifs or buts about this legally. I, of course, have no time to check the other site with my crazy schedule and really appreciate the feedback about what is going on -- the legal dept, however, is all over them. I agree that there must be a false impression on the other site because when we check what counts, like traffic being rated by third party companies on the internet, like a company called Alexa which rates the traffic of websites, despite VW having just the landing page for this short period, VW still has far more traffic than the other site.

By the way, you and I made up and not fighting anymore.

VixenHotwife wrote:I certainly had no negative thoughts about igor previously.... but i sure do now.
Mark, you are just a shill for those who damaged VW and RC, and I still maintain they did it for money, not some obscure "we can make it better" theory.
They loved VW so much they could not stand by, they just had to steal what they could, and aim to put the site out of business.
I, for one, remain loyal to VW.
HUmmmm. I wonder is "Mark" is actually Igor?

He is Igor. It is entirely comprehensible if someone wants to go and start a business on their own, but it is entirely incomprehensible that they would steal and cause interruption like this to get a jump start. I am sure there are a lot of people who have started their own business here and know the growing pains of a new business. But people with character go thru those growing pains, and do not take short cuts. But ***** (Igor) wanted to take a short cut. That is bull shit.

VWPublicRelations wrote:I agree that there must be a false impression on the other site because when we check what counts, like traffic being rated by third party companies on the internet, like a company called Alexa which rates the traffic of websites, despite VW having just the landing page for this short period, VW still has far more traffic than the other site.

VC stats: #103,709; .0028% of the market has been there this month.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/********.com#

VW stats: #2,678; .034% of the market has been here this month.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/voyeurweb.com#
.029% of all internet users were here YESTERDAY???????

Thanks for the link to that site...very interesting. If I'm reading the statistics correctly, VC was hardly getting any traffic until early June, then they spiked for some reason (I wonder what that was). After that they've dropped down some and are currently getting about one third the amount of traffic that VW is currently getting. That seems kind of strange given that VC has a functioning site and VW is just a BB. But it's hard to argue with independent statistics. I would expect this trend to change radically if VW does not get back up soon. I would also expect that it would be interesting to watch the changes in traffic between the two sites once VW gets operational again. I'll be sure to keep my eye on the trends as things progress...

VWPublicRelations wrote:

rugrollers wrote:[A lot of stuff]

With or without the logo, as you so noted, those pics are copyrighted to VW because people who posted them posted them believing they were posting the pics on VW.[snip]

By the way, you and I made up and not fighting anymore.

Katherine,

We're not fighting, but I'm getting very frustrated at the lack of response to multiple emails about prize payouts. Elise posted about this a couple of days ago and you responded, but I cannot get a response to any of my emails. How can I know that no one has impersonated us to claim our prizes? (How can you screen for impersonators if your records are gone?) Please don't tell me to send an email -- I did that three times. So what should I do? I hesitate to put my email up here in this context, but you can PM me with a click of a button.

As for copyright, VW/RC/HC always specified that contributors retained the copyright to their material. That signified a commitment not to turn around and disseminate our material (which Igor has now violated). Most other sites actually make you sign away your rights to uploaded content entirely. So what VW actually had was not the copyright but the right to publish that content. I am not faulting you for not knowing this, but we really hope that VW is not going to switch to the other way of doing things.