The Amateur Message Boards of the World Famous VoyeurWeb

They asked what the science was behind border closures, school closings, and lockdowns.

Finding little to no science, they did not do it.

Thoughts?

johnny, posting lies is not science, dimwit.

Everything you posted was nothing but your own made up stupid shit, including your supposed reason Sweden didn't have lockdowns.

Thoughts?

Follow the science.

Everything the Right Honorable Mr Forbes published was true (as usual).

No, not a thing you posted is true (as usual). It's all misinformation.

Of course, upon seeing your nonsense post, I immediately checked on the science and found that your post was the exact opposite of the truth.

When you have some science to post, get back to us. Your inane partisan blather is not science and isn't worth anyone's time.

Clowntroller posted not a scintilla of science, but then stated he relied on science.

Okay, let's rely on science.

Sweden looked at the science to support lockdowns and masks and such, found none, and ended up with lower mortality from covid than any other country which did the opposite.

Clown, of course, supports masks because, with his looks, he wants to cover up.

johnfibs posted not a scintilla of science, but then stated he relied on science.

Not a quotation from a scientific study. Not a link to a scientific study.

This is because johnforbes never read a scientific study on the subject.


Okay, now I'll do what johnforbes SHOULD have done in starting a discussion thread on COVID mortality globally:

Let's rely on science, not johnforbes' unsupported lies, shall we?

"Background: Norway and Sweden are similar countries in terms of socioeconomics and health care. Norway implemented extensive COVID-19 measures, such as school closures and lockdowns, whereas Sweden did not. Aims: To compare mortality in Norway and Sweden, two similar countries with very different mitigation measures against COVID-19. Methods: Using real-world data from national registries, we compared all-cause and COVID-19-related mortality rates with 95% confidence intervals (CI) per 100,000 person-weeks and mortality rate ratios (MRR) comparing the five preceding years (2015–2019) with the pandemic year (2020) in Norway and Sweden."

"On 12 March 2020, the Norwegian government introduced extraordinary measures against the pandemic [11]. Emergency laws required the closure of all day-care centres, schools, universities and other academic institutions, as well as gyms, hair salons, restaurants and movie theatres. Domestic and international travel restrictions were introduced and all sport and cultural events, as well as all organised sports, were cancelled [11]. The Norwegian government urged the population to stay at home if possible and contact with health care services was encouraged only if absolutely necessary. Most appointments for patients with chronic diseases were cancelled or replaced with telephone or video consultations [12].

In Sweden, measures were considerably less strict during the first wave of the pandemic. On 27 March 2021, the Swedish government banned public gatherings and events with >50 people [13]. The Public Health Agency recommended high schools and universities to remain open, but to teach online if possible, and advised that non-essential travel should be avoided [14]. People with respiratory symptoms should stay at home and some elective surgery was postponed [15], but otherwise the health care service in Sweden operated as before. Restaurants and bars, gyms, hair salons and movie theatres stayed open, and sports and cultural events continued during the pandemic [16]."

"At the end of 2020, Norway reported few COVID-19-associated deaths and little severe disease. By contrast, Sweden reported more COVID-19-associated deaths and disease. The substantially different national strategies to control the COVID-19 pandemic in the two countries and the similarity of the countries with regard to confounding variables may provide a natural experiment enabling difference-in-difference analyses [17] to explore the possible benefits and harms associated with the pandemic and its measures. Previous studies were conducted early in the course of the pandemic before complete data for 2020 became available, or have not directly compared countries, states or regions with similar socioeconomics, infrastructure, ethnicity or health care systems [18–20]."

"COVID-19 associated mortality

From 11 March 2020 to 22 January 2021, a total of 60,896 people tested positive for COVID-19 and 544 COVID-19 cause-specific deaths were recorded in Norway compared with 547,166 COVID-19 positive people and 11,005 COVID-19 cause-specific deaths in Sweden."

"The COVID-19 cause-specific mortality rate during the first wave of the pandemic was 0.3 per 100,000 person-weeks (95% CI 0.1–0.4) in Norway and 2.9 per 100,000 person-weeks (95% CI 1.9–3.9) in Sweden"-NIH

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8807990/


So we see the mortality rate in Sweden was more than NINE TIMES the mortality rate in Norway, which makes johnforbes a liar. And this is just one of the comparison studies that johnforbes claims he is perfectly aware of since he claims to have followed the science. Thus he must know of this study, and so is lying.

The fact is, Sweden had the highest COVID mortality rate of ALL Scandinavian countries. johnforbes knows this but he lied about it anyway.


ALSO:

"Looser COVID-19 health policies in Sweden during the pandemic did not translate into better short-term economic performance, according to a study in the Journal of Global Health.

Early in the pandemic, other Nordic countries implemented stricter measures such as lockdowns and took more protective actions to try to limit COVID-19.

The study examined epidemiological, health system utilization, health policy, and economic data from the 5 countries in the Nordic region (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) for January 2020 through January 3, 2021. Minimal socioeconomic, cultural, and geographical differences between the countries allow for comparative analysis.

Researchers reported Sweden had the largest COVID-19 incidence and mortality, and the highest average weekly percent change for both indicators; Denmark had the highest number of COVID-19 tests per capita; and Norway had a significant increase in unemployment while the percentage change in real gross domestic product (GDP) was insignificant for all countries.

“Although Sweden had chosen looser COVID-19 health policies to benefit its economy, there is no evidence that this had any short-term economic benefits, while costing disproportionate disease transmission and mortality numbers compared to neighboring countries,” the authors wrote."-JAMA Network
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2796367

This is further scientific evidence that johnfibs is lying to us. And there are many more studies showing he lied. But unlike me, johnny has no scientific evidence whatsoever to contribute to a scientific discussion. He never does. His own posts prove that he's got nothin' as always. He simply made it up.

If you do look at the science, it remains true that -- in terms of mortality (the ultimate test) -- Sweden did better than any other country for not closing schools and business and not having the mandates.

The enormous costs of lockdowns included destroyed jobs, two lost years of education for kids, missed cardiac and oncology appointments, etc.

Once again johnfibs posted not a scintilla of science, but then stated he relied on science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study. Not one link to a scientific study. This is because he simply made it up.


The two scientific studies I provided links to directly contradict the two lies Dishonestjohn is repeating.

Sadly, like any good Nazi, johnforbes is a Goebbels acolyte who believes if you repeat a lie enough times it will become the truth. Too bad for dimwit johnny his childish "Weltbild" isn't the way science works.

I now predict that johnforbes will continue to be unable to provide any verifiable scientific evidence to support his big lies.

I also predict he will continue to yammer on ad nauseum insisting he is relating facts when he is not. You just can't stop a pathological liar from doubling down on his lies.

Be honest, time does not permit the posting of the entire history of science.

However, from Roger Bacon to Francis Bacon, and in math extending from Descartes to Lobachevsky, there is wide agreement that Clowntroller is -- as his login name suggest -- both a clown and a troller.

Be honest, time absolutely DOES permit the posting of links to scientific studies that support your claims. I myself did just that to support MY claims, which proves it is possible. That is isn't possible for you only demonstrates your intellectual impotence.

In fact, instead of more of your idiotic forbsian yammering, you could have used that same time to provide a link to some evidence for you claim. But you didn't because you couldn't and you AREN'T honest.

But once again, just as I predicted, Dishonestjohn was unable to provide any verifiable scientific evidence to support his big lies and instead only yammered more of his nonsense.

If johnforbes continues in his intellectual impotence this way, people will start to believe I must be psychic.

Look, given my background in science (M.D., University of Yahoo, Ph.D. YouTube Academy of Bioscience), I simply cannot expend all my time explaining things from Archimedes forward.

So you couldn't find any science to support your lies, eh? You are admitting you're intellectually impotent.

Got it.

The actual science supports my original assertion -- herewith repeated -- that Sweden, with no lockdowns or school closures, had the lowest pandemic morality in the world.

Follow the science.

Once again johnfibs posted not a scintilla of science, but then stated he relied on science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study. Not one link to a scientific study. This is because he simply made it up.


I spoon fed Dishonestjohn some of the science surrounding this issue which completely contradicts his lies, but johnforbes is apparently illiterate, unable to read the studies and comment on them rationally. He couldn't come up with a single comment about the studies or their findings. johnforbes apparently thinks that ignoring something is all he needs to do in order to make the science disappear.

If only johnforbes would follow the science, but he refuses, as his yammering posts prove once again.

My arguments were supported by science.

Although Fauci suggested that he was the personification of science, the noble Mr Forbes is not.

He merely looks to citations to scholarly journals in his ceaseless quest for truth, justice, and the American Way.

"My arguments were supported by science."-johnfuibs

No, you haven't got a shred of actual science to support your lies, and this thread proves it.]

johnfibs has still not posted a scintilla of science, but then stated he relied on science.

It's what lying sacks of shit do.

Where was the scientific evidence for Fauci to reverse himself and go all in on masks on April 1, 2020?

Where was the scientific support for 6 feet of social distance? There was none, and a 2021 study revealed 3 feet was just as good.

In summary, then, Clowntroller has not posted a scintilla of evidence to support his position that the Honorable Forbes has not supported his position.

Heck, there are actual bridges with less support than the rock-solid empiricism of Mr Forbes' arguments.

"Where was the scientific evidence for Fauci to reverse himself and go all in on masks on April 1, 2020?"-johnfoibles

This thread is not about Faucci, dimwit. It is about Sweden and their 10 times greater mortality due to a lack of COVID response unlike the rest of Scandinavia. Try to keep up with yourself, dummy.


"In summary, then, His Lordship has not posted a scintilla of evidence to support his position that the Dishonorable Forbes has not supported his position."-johnfibs

Another lie from Dishonestjohn. I posted much more than a scintilla of evidence that you lied about Sweden, dummy. Just look at my links and quotations posted above. You on the other hand have been unable to support your lies with any science whatsoever.

Your unsupported forbesian bridge collapsed days ago.

"I now predict that johnforbes will continue to be unable to provide any verifiable scientific evidence to support his big lies.
I also predict he will continue to yammer on ad nauseum insisting he is relating facts when he is not."-me, Nov. 13, 2022

For 3 weeks johnforbes has been unable to produce any scientific evidence to support his lies, as I said he wouldn't. Still no link to a scientific study from him. Still no attributed quotations from a scientific study from him, exactly as I said. All he has offered is more yammering ad nauseum, also exactly as I said he would.

Now Dishonestjohn has even resorted to an irrelevant, off-topic music video as an attempted distraction from his intellectual impotence. This is the johnforbes version of a desperate "buck-and-wing" diversion from the damning science he can't acknowledge.

But we still see you, johnny. You've still got nothin' to support your lies, no matter how much dancing you do for us. This is because you were so easily duped by your handlers once again to get you to spread partisan misinformation.

If only johnforbes would follow the science instead of his daily consumption of partisan lies from his handlers' dishonest websites.

Having supported his position with more solid posts than the average bridge, Mr Forbes provided music entertainment as well as enlightenment.

Denis Diderot didn't furnish anywhere near the enlightenment.

But Clowntoker is a dim bulb, although we should not make light of his lack of candlepower.

Once again johnforbes has failed to post a scintilla of science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study. Not one link to a scientific study. This is because he can't.


I would love to see a solid post from johnforbes someday. But it goes without saying that I have no expectations of ever seeing one since johnforbes has all the intellect of a solid post.

Most of the girls I meet say the same thing "I would love a solid post from that handsome Forbes."

However, Clowntoker should know that I do not dive into the degrading decadent deeds of the dim dark dens of downtown Frisco

"Most of the girls I meet say the same thing "I would love a solid post from that handsome Forbes.""-johnflubs

And it goes without saying that not one of those girls has ever seen a solid post from dimwit johnny any more than we have.

Everything johnforbes posts intellectually flaccid.

I always hate to brag about credentials, but it was indeed the Honorable Mr. Forbes who was the treating physician to the internationally renowned Swedish Bikini Team.

Hopefully, this will force Clowntoker to accept the full force of the science which Forbes has kindly proffered.

johnny, the "full force" of nothing (i.e. all the science you have proffered here) pack all the punch of a fart in the wind.

It explains why you are always so impressed by someone who can break a potato chip. You actually consider that to be an impressive "full force."

Once again johnforbes has failed to post a scintilla of science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study. Not one link to a scientific study.

But as we see by his latest post above, once again johnny goes to pop stars to support his flaccid medical opinions.

Nonsense, it is clearly true that the wayward wind is a restless wind.

For person born in a shack by the railroad track, I guess the sound of the outward bound made him a slave to his wandering ways.

Once again johnforbes has failed to post a scintilla of science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study. Not one link to a scientific study.

But as we see by his latest post above, once again johnny resorts to quoting pop stars to support his flaccid medical opinions.

Once again, Clowntoker has failed to post a scintilla of science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study.

Not one link to a scientific study.

Not even a sausage link.

Not even a soy sausage link.

But as we see by his latest post above, once again Clown resorts to misquoting the august Mr Forbes while Clownswisher remains flaccid in mind, body, and spirit.

"Once again, His Lordship has failed to post a scintilla of science.
Not one quotation from a scientific study.
Not one link to a scientific study."-johnfibs


johnny, you do realize that flat out lying like that in front of everyone makes you look like a lying partisan sack of shit, right?

You really need to read the scientific studies and quotations I posted for you above, and check out the links to prove to yourself that I didn't make it up. You might then stop making a fool of yourself this way, dummy.

I'm really embarrassed for the Republicans with a moron like you representing their views.

Heavens to Betsy, with RINOs like McConnell tossing away 4 Senate seats by not funding Masters, Laxalt, or Herschel enough, and funding worthless Murkowski, I'm hardly a partisan.

That aside, once again Clowntoker has failed to post a scintilla of science.

Not one quotation from a scientific study.

Not one link to a scientific study.

Not even a sausage link.

Not even a soy sausage link.

But as we see by his post above, once again Clown resorts to misquoting the august Mr Forbes while Clownswisher remains flaccid in mind, body, and spirit.

"That aside, once again His Lordship has failed to post a scintilla of science.
Not one quotation from a scientific study.
Not one link to a scientific study."-johnfibs

Since johnforbes apparently can't read previous posts on this thread, I will repost both the quotations from the scientific studies and the links to the scientific studies, which is much, much more than a "scintilla of science" as Dishonestjohn knows perfectly well but he is lying about it anyway.

Read it and weep, dumbfuck, and then post some quotations from a scientific study and a link to a scientific study to support your lies:


"Background: Norway and Sweden are similar countries in terms of socioeconomics and health care. Norway implemented extensive COVID-19 measures, such as school closures and lockdowns, whereas Sweden did not. Aims: To compare mortality in Norway and Sweden, two similar countries with very different mitigation measures against COVID-19. Methods: Using real-world data from national registries, we compared all-cause and COVID-19-related mortality rates with 95% confidence intervals (CI) per 100,000 person-weeks and mortality rate ratios (MRR) comparing the five preceding years (2015–2019) with the pandemic year (2020) in Norway and Sweden."

"On 12 March 2020, the Norwegian government introduced extraordinary measures against the pandemic [11]. Emergency laws required the closure of all day-care centres, schools, universities and other academic institutions, as well as gyms, hair salons, restaurants and movie theatres. Domestic and international travel restrictions were introduced and all sport and cultural events, as well as all organised sports, were cancelled [11]. The Norwegian government urged the population to stay at home if possible and contact with health care services was encouraged only if absolutely necessary. Most appointments for patients with chronic diseases were cancelled or replaced with telephone or video consultations [12].

In Sweden, measures were considerably less strict during the first wave of the pandemic. On 27 March 2021, the Swedish government banned public gatherings and events with >50 people [13]. The Public Health Agency recommended high schools and universities to remain open, but to teach online if possible, and advised that non-essential travel should be avoided [14]. People with respiratory symptoms should stay at home and some elective surgery was postponed [15], but otherwise the health care service in Sweden operated as before. Restaurants and bars, gyms, hair salons and movie theatres stayed open, and sports and cultural events continued during the pandemic [16]."

"At the end of 2020, Norway reported few COVID-19-associated deaths and little severe disease. By contrast, Sweden reported more COVID-19-associated deaths and disease. The substantially different national strategies to control the COVID-19 pandemic in the two countries and the similarity of the countries with regard to confounding variables may provide a natural experiment enabling difference-in-difference analyses [17] to explore the possible benefits and harms associated with the pandemic and its measures. Previous studies were conducted early in the course of the pandemic before complete data for 2020 became available, or have not directly compared countries, states or regions with similar socioeconomics, infrastructure, ethnicity or health care systems [18–20]."

"COVID-19 associated mortality

From 11 March 2020 to 22 January 2021, a total of 60,896 people tested positive for COVID-19 and 544 COVID-19 cause-specific deaths were recorded in Norway compared with 547,166 COVID-19 positive people and 11,005 COVID-19 cause-specific deaths in Sweden."

"The COVID-19 cause-specific mortality rate during the first wave of the pandemic was 0.3 per 100,000 person-weeks (95% CI 0.1–0.4) in Norway and 2.9 per 100,000 person-weeks (95% CI 1.9–3.9) in Sweden"-NIH

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8807990/


So we see the mortality rate in Sweden was more than NINE TIMES the mortality rate in Norway, which makes johnforbes a liar. And this is just one of the comparison studies that johnforbes claims he is perfectly aware of since he claims to have followed the science. Thus he must know of this study, and so is lying.

The fact is, Sweden had the highest COVID mortality rate of ALL Scandinavian countries. johnforbes knows this but he lied about it anyway.


ALSO:

"Looser COVID-19 health policies in Sweden during the pandemic did not translate into better short-term economic performance, according to a study in the Journal of Global Health.

Early in the pandemic, other Nordic countries implemented stricter measures such as lockdowns and took more protective actions to try to limit COVID-19.

The study examined epidemiological, health system utilization, health policy, and economic data from the 5 countries in the Nordic region (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden) for January 2020 through January 3, 2021. Minimal socioeconomic, cultural, and geographical differences between the countries allow for comparative analysis.

Researchers reported Sweden had the largest COVID-19 incidence and mortality, and the highest average weekly percent change for both indicators; Denmark had the highest number of COVID-19 tests per capita; and Norway had a significant increase in unemployment while the percentage change in real gross domestic product (GDP) was insignificant for all countries.

“Although Sweden had chosen looser COVID-19 health policies to benefit its economy, there is no evidence that this had any short-term economic benefits, while costing disproportionate disease transmission and mortality numbers compared to neighboring countries,” the authors wrote."-JAMA Network
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2796367

This is further scientific evidence that johnfibs is lying to us. And there are many more studies showing he lied. But unlike me, johnny has no scientific evidence whatsoever to contribute to a scientific discussion. He never does. His own posts prove that he's got nothin' as always. He simply made it up.

Yes, I used to coach the Swedish Bikini Team. And yes, my daily coffee is Gevalia, so I have some bias.

This thread, like most of the good ones, has a lot of information to sort through.

However, Clowntroller's postings had a striking paucity of substance, and not a scintilla of science.

Sweden asked what the science was behind border closures, school closings, and lockdowns.

Finding little to no science, they did not do it.

A win for rationality and Sweden.

"Sweden asked what the science was behind border closures, school closings, and lockdowns.
Finding little to no science, they did not do it."-johnfibs

There are two things wrong with that lie, johnny. First, Sweden paid the price for no lockdowns with 5-to-9 times higher mortality than their neighbors. (You don't seem to grasp that that's a BAD thing.)

And second, they didn't impose lockdowns only because their laws didn't allow it even if the government wanted to.

Your idiotic comment is simply more made up stupid shit, as are all your posts.

As a typical thread winds down, we all look back, bask in the contentment of a job well done, and reflect upon all we have learned:

1) Gevalia is a reliable coffee.

2) Sweden looked for science to support lockdowns and two years of school closures, found none, didn't do them, and ended up better off than nations who indulged in such.

3) The wayward wind is a restless wind -- a restless wind that yearns to wander

4) In a lonely shack by a railroad track, Mr Forbes spend his younger days. And I guess the sound of the outward bound made him a slave to his wandering ways.

Well, three out of four ain't bad for a usually dishonest scumbag like yourself, johnny.

Thank you for the kind words and your support for this fine thread.

I'm glad to have played a role in starting it, and it has contributed greatly to our shared understanding of the largely avoidable aspects of the crisis we have weathered.

Yes, it is good that you finally learned how wrong you were about Sweden's COVID mortality rate, that it was actually the WORST among the Scandinavian countries. That's what following the science does for you, johnny, it keeps you from living purely in a partisan fantasy world.

Now you can at least stop spreading that particular 'lockdown lie.'


Incidentally, we are about to see in China what happens without lockdowns. Guess what the results will be of THAT real world experiment, johnny. Do you think the number of deaths will increase dramatically? Or will they reach herd immunity in three months as your "engineering experts" predicted?

I am pondering whether to censor Clowntroller's post for misinformation.

In candor, however, Clown's posting was not misinformation, but more of a reflection of his delusion.

What "misinformation," johnny?

Just because you have no science to support your lies and you can't refute the science I posted doesn't mean that it is disinformation. It just means that you're grossly ignorant of the facts.

But go ahead, when ya got nothin', post another diversionary video link, right?

If Clown thinks Diana Ross is a mere diversion, he lacks musical appreciation.

Through the mirror of my mind, time after, I see reflections...

Great theme song to most of the "China Beach" episodes, and it was a hell of an era...

So you couldn't find any misinformation in my posts.

Got it, you lying sack of shit.

There is more than a kernel of wisdom in this thread.

Herewith, the takeaway info:

Sweden asked what the science was behind border closures, school closings, and lockdowns.

Finding little to no science, they did not do it.

A win for rationality and Sweden.

"A win for rationality and Sweden."-johnfuckedup

Yes, if you consider a rate of nine times more people dying from COVID than their neighbors, then it is indeed a Forbesian win.

Indeed so.

My forthcoming book will be entitled The Forbesian Win: A Taut Tan Guide to Success.


The first review of it called it a "sweeping saga of love and lust, taking the breathless reader on a page-turning ride which stimulates the mind and the senses."

Another reviewer said "This new tome from the pen of Mr Forbes was a combination of John Keats and F Scott Fitzgerald which left me emotionally drained."

Unfortunatley for you, I saw the publisher's proof before printing and the actual working title was "The Forbsian Whine: A Flaccid Guide to Impotently Sucking"

Obviously you live up to the lofty ambitions of that title.

Alas, my staff members did not send me a clipping of any negative reviews.

The New York Times -- once so august in the liberal "mind" -- called my tome:

"A significant contribution to western civilization. This reviewer was taken on a rollercoaster ride of pure cerebral bliss as the wit and wisdom of author Forbes graced the pages of his latest noble work."

Did your staff read to you the scientific studies I linked for your edification which proved your thread title here is a lie?

Nice diversion attempt though, dummy.