[elklindo69]

Zimmerman has already conceded killing Martin.
Murder II is defined as killing under certain circumstances, including intent and motive.

Do you really think Zimmerman followed Trayvon to kill him?

NO...

Zimmerman walked in the opposite direction of the street sign for kicks and giggles....

[elklindo69]

"Do you really think Zimmerman followed Trayvon to kill him?"-RealJustme

No, I don't.
Again, you only demonstrate your ignorance.

If anyone thought Zimmerman had followed with the intent to kill, he would have been charged with Murder I.
He is charged with Murder II presumably because the prosecution believes he was a yahoo out to be a vigilante.
But I don't know why they charged murder II and I don't care.

It sounds to me like Zimmerman could more correctly, with greater chance of conviction, have been charged with manslaughter.
In Florida: "There has been quite a bit of discussion of how to differentiate manslaughter from first and second degree murder, but what it comes down to is this: if something you do causes someone else to die, if something you get someone else to do causes someone to die, or if you do something stupid (or fail to do something smart) that common sense would tell you would create dangerous situation and could cause someone to die and someone does die, you have committed manslaughter."
Zimmerman created the lethal situation by his actions and did something stupid.
That said, I think he probably carries the gun with the itch to have opportunity to use it, just like Leroy does.

Zimmerman's refusal to simply track Martin in his vehicle and notify police, but instead pursue Martin on foot is exactly why police don't like neighborhood watches run by yahoos who want to do the job themselves. Untrained civilians will too often precipitate violent events needlessly, which is exactly what Zimmerman did.

Yes, Zimmerman was probably defending himself, but he was defending himself from the situation he was responsible for needlessly creating.

As a corollary.

The cops drive around in conspicuous vehicles with "POLICE" on the doors in size 5000 font. They have badges on their uniforms with POLICE slapped on back of their shirts/jackets so any knucklehead can identify them.

I live in NYC, and I pay alot of fucking money in taxes for the cops. So I'm not going to get a gun and drive around on my personal time chasing around strangers in the neighborhood, when I have a 2 year old daughter to take care of. That would be pure idiocy. If I end up dead then my daughter will not have a father. That's the difference between responsible people like me and my wife and the Zimmerman's of the world.

So when I call the cops they better show up and do their job. It's not my job to do their job...

I agree with Bilbo, that manslaughter is the more appropriate charge. Zimmerman might have all of the furniture rearranged in that skull of his. But I don't think he was a murderer. This situation is Murphy's law in action, anything that can go wrong will go wrong...

[Clownkicker]

elklindo, my name ain't Bilbo....

And don't call me Shirley either.

[RealJustme]

Again where's the crime?

[Leroy]

Yes, Zimmerman was probably defending himself, but he was defending himself from the situation he was responsible for needlessly creating.

And that shows why you're wrong - you believe that following someone provokes an acceptable violent response from the person being followed - that idea is completely wrong.

[RealJustme]

So when I call the cops they better show up and do their job. It's not my job to do their job...

You do know that the police's own stats show 97% of the time they arrive to late to help. Just look at this case, Zimmerman called the police, they arrived to late, thank God Zimmerman was carrying a gun.

[elklindo69]

elklindo, my name ain't Bilbo....

And don't call me Shirley either.

Woops...

:lol:

[elklindo69]

Yes, Zimmerman was probably defending himself, but he was defending himself from the situation he was responsible for needlessly creating.

And that shows why you're wrong - you believe that following someone provokes an acceptable violent response from the person being followed - that idea is completely wrong.

Wrong...out of context.

Zimmerman was looking for a confrontation. They have it on tape...

Fucking punks...they always get away.

Zimmerman defied the dispatcher's suggestions and continued the pursuit.

Got out of the truck and sought a confrontation....

Plain and Simple.

[elklindo69]

So when I call the cops they better show up and do their job. It's not my job to do their job...

You do know that the police's own stats show 97% of the time they arrive to late to help. Just look at this case, Zimmerman called the police, they arrived to late, thank God Zimmerman was carrying a gun.

Arrived to late to help with what???

[BilboBagend]

It looks like Florida's 2nd Degree Murder includes unintentional murder with malice or disregard for others lives.

[RealJustme]

Yes, Zimmerman was probably defending himself, but he was defending himself from the situation he was responsible for needlessly creating.

So you're saying, although Zimmerman didn't commit a crime in hindsight he shouldn't have followed Trayvon.

[Leroy]

^^^^This RealJustme clown is really a moron.

Zimmerman has already conceded killing Martin.
Murder II is defined as killing under certain circumstances, including intent and motive.
Most of those millions you're talking about have never killed anyone, you idiot.

You seem to have a problem putting things in accurate context: Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in SELF-DEFENSE. That's not Murder II.

[Clownkicker]

"You seem to have a problem putting things in accurate context: Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in SELF-DEFENSE. That's not Murder II."-Leroy

You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
You only argue with the position you want to attribute to people, not the position they actually post.

RealJustme didn't understand that murder consists of two parts, the killing of someone and the motive for killing them.
Since Zimmerman already admitted to killing Martin, (the alleged SELF DEFENSE part is irrelevant to the point that the prosecution now doesn't need to prove Zimmerman killed Martin.) all the prosecution needs to do to prove murder is to establish state of mind at the time of the killing.
Neither you nor RealJustme seems to understand this simple point. You clowns probably still think this is about "Stand your ground".

And if you would bother to read my posts before you yammer on about nothing, you would see that I think it more likely that Zimmerman committed manslaughter, not murder.

[elklindo69]

^^^^This RealJustme clown is really a moron.

Zimmerman has already conceded killing Martin.
Murder II is defined as killing under certain circumstances, including intent and motive.
Most of those millions you're talking about have never killed anyone, you idiot.

You seem to have a problem putting things in accurate context: Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in SELF-DEFENSE. That's not Murder II.

The prosecution has evidence which proves that he intended to confront Martin. You can't confront someone, shoot them, then claim self defense.

Leroy...It doesn't work that way.

[Clownkicker]

"So you're saying, although Zimmerman didn't commit a crime in hindsight he shouldn't have followed Trayvon."-RealJustme

No, I'm not saying that.
And Leroy doesn't understand this either, believing it's alright to 'innocently' stalk people if you believe you have a good reason to do so.

Just the opposite. I'm suggesting that he DID commit a crime the moment someone died because of his stupidity.
"Again where's the crime?"-RealJustme
What you idiots need to understand is that while everyone has the right to be stupid like Zimmerman, (and it's no crime to be stupid or else you would both be in prison right now) as soon as someone dies as the result of your stupidity, as a matter of law it becomes the crime of manslaughter.
That's where the crime is, and let that be a warning to you the next time you and you friends are reenacting moronic stunts from "Jackass the Movie"

If you guys are going to simply choose to ignore the law (and FLORIDA law in this case, not the law in your home state of TV police dramas) as you argue your witless blather, then there's no point talking to you.
It doesn't matter what I think or what you think or what you believe your rights should be. What matters in a trial is the law. You may not like it, but the judge in Florida doesn't care if you believe you have the right to stalk someone until they predictably react violently. The law in Florida says you don't.

But I do think it likely that Zimmerman thought he could ignore prudent warnings from the 911 operator because he was pretty sure he carried more firepower than the suspect. This is what makes fools like Zimmerman and Leroy do stupid things that can lead to manslaughter, all the while believing that they have every right to provoke someone to violence, at which time they will self-righteously blow the guy away before they wake up in a cell wondering what went wrong.

Sorry to burst your delusional bubble, Leroy, but killing brought on by reckless disregard and stupidity is manslaughter, not self-defense.

[Clownkicker]

"The prosecution has evidence which proves that he intended to confront Martin. You can't confront someone, shoot them, then claim self defense."-elklindo

Elk, if all that's true, you may be convincing me it's Murder II, not manslaughter.

[RealJustme]

The prosecution has evidence which proves that he intended to confront Martin. You can't confront someone, shoot them, then claim self defense."-elklindo

Yes you if they attack you, Zimmerman did it and he's going to walk.

[Leroy]

Sorry to burst your delusional bubble, Leroy, but killing brought on by reckless disregard and stupidity is manslaughter, not self-defense.

There was nothing "disregarded" or "Stupid" about following a suspected criminal, it should be the norm for anyone willing to protect others.

You seem to want to believe that GZ "Confronted" TM with some angry/violent intent - even asking "What are you doing here?" isn't justification for TM to violently attack GZ, and once TM violently attacked GZ, GZ had every right, legally, to defend himself.

That's the point you don't get.

[BilboBagend]

As all these pseudo conservatives want to convieniebtly forget, a jury will determine if Zimmerman commited a crime. My bet. He did.

[RealJustme]

The prosecutor presented two witnesses today concerning Zimmerman's education. He was an A student with the goal of becoming a prosecutor. Liberals think this is bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[RealJustme]

The recordings show that Zimmerman was in contact with the police and trying to keep Trayvon in view the night of the incident, he did the best he could while working with the person who received his 911 call. He was the neighborhood watch and he followed the rule book while on line with the police.

[BilboBagend]

Creating a violent situation isn't a crime dude.

justupid

Actually, it is a crime.

[Leroy]

As all these pseudo conservatives want to convieniebtly forget, a jury will determine if Zimmerman commited a crime. My bet. He did.

Dildo seems to forget that people like him have already convicted him and that's what we're discussing in this forum.

[johnforbes]

Media sought to portray Trayvon as some latter day Rosa Parks.

But he had been expelled at least twice, used and sold dope, and tweeted as "NO LIMIT NIGGA."

[Clownkicker]

Leroy seems to forget that people like him and RealJustme have already exonerated Zimmerman and that's what we're discussing in this forum.

[RealJustme]

Leroy seems to forget that people like him and RealJustme have already exonerated Zimmerman and that's what we're discussing in this forum.

We're saying innocent until proven guilty and I haven't seen one piece of evidence to even suggest he is guilty of murder. The prosecutor has rested his case and now I'm even more convinced Zimmerman is innocent, wait until the defense presents his evidence and everyone will be outraged that charges were ever brought (except for the haters)

[johnforbes]

Trayvon had been expelled from school, had burglary tools and jewelry in his backpack, tweeted about drugs and selling same, and used the logon "NO LIMIT NIGGA."

Trayvon would have been lucky to finish high school, and his vocabulary and worldview were that of a street punk.

Zimmerman's story of being sucker-punched, and being subjected to some ground 'n pound (including hand over mouth), sounds quite reasonable.

Zimmerman wasn't a saint. Trayvon was a punk.

Add it all up, delete the racial pandering, and it is a case of self-defense.

[Leroy]

Leroy seems to forget that people like him and RealJustme have already exonerated Zimmerman and that's what we're discussing in this forum.

Hardly, what I've done is factually dispute the lies of people like you, people that can't even quote the 9-11 call recording correctly, people that lie about TM, people that lie about what bushes are in the area...

The facts, as have been presented to this point show that GZ acted properly, in good character, in defense of his neighbors, and that he was attacked by a violent thug with a known history of violence and extreme racial prejudice.

[johnforbes]

Zim was on the phone with the police dispatcher about Trayvon.

Hardly what Zim would have done had he planned to murder Trayvon.

[BilboBagend]

Sorry, liar leroy, you say he IS innocent. I say a jury will PROBABLY find him guilty of A CRIME. hardly what any rational, honest person would call equivalent statements

Then there is the fauyx knocking down his own invalid false assumption that Zimmerman PLANNED to murder Martin. That has nothing to do with the charges or his possible conviction.

Ah yes, the usual twisters and liars doing all they can to make statements as to Zimmerman's innocence despite the evidence. Knocking down false strawmen in rapid succession. Too bad none of them matter in the least.

[RealJustme]

Ah yes, the usual twisters and liars doing all they can to make statements as to Zimmerman's innocence despite the evidence

The evidence that the prosecutor has presented indicates Zimmerman is innocent...that's before the defense even presents his evidence. The trail was over when the only eye witness testified it was Tryavon who had Zimmerman pinned to the ground pounding him before Zimmerman shot him.

[BilboBagend]

More biased delusions from justupiud.

Again, the jury will decide. The evidence is damning. This is not a murder 1 trial. This is a murder 2 trial with the possibility of a manslaughter conviction. It probably is a murder 2 by Fl law, but who knows what a jury will decide.

[RealJustme]

Again, the jury will decide. The evidence is damning.

Damning for the prosecutor for even filing the charges.

[BilboBagend]

As was recommended originally by the first police officer investigating before Zimmerman's father intervened.

There was certainly just cause for further investigation and charging.

The rest is biased delusions, as always with you.

[johnforbes]

The m2 charge reflected a prosecutor seeking reelection.

The prosecution has presented no evidence to show anything relating to depraved indifference.

In a Leibnitzian best of all possible worlds, Zimmerman would have remained in his car.

And Trayvon would have puffed more pot and watched more NBA, then in the future gone to prison for some other dumb act.

But, on a dark and rainy night, something happened.

Nobody -- but nobody -- would be on the phone to the police while planning a murder, so the charge against Zim is absurd.

[BilboBagend]

As I said.

[RealJustme]

The m2 charge reflected a prosecutor seeking reelection.

After this circus called a trial proves that this was malicious prosecution Zimmerman will own party of that city by the time he law suits are over.

[RealJustme]

I was watching a program where different attorneys were discussing the Zimmerman trial, one of the attorneys representing the Martin family said no one can for sure what happened but he was at least 60% sure Zimmerman was guilty of murder so should be convicted. All the other attorneys looked at him with stunned silence...finally one of them pointed out this wasn't a civil trial where all you have to have is over 50% to convict, this is a criminal trial, you have to be convinced "beyond a reasonable doubt", if you're only 60% convinced, you've made the case for the defense. The attorney for the Martin family became flustered and accused them of warping his comments and that to him anything over 60% is beyond a reasonable doubt, to others the number may be 99.9% but not for him, he would convict him if he was on the jury.

Folks this is the insane hatred and racism we're dealing with in this trial, they (many on the left) have an agenda to convict Zimmerman no matter what the facts are. When Zimmerman walks there will be blood on the streets in areas where there are high numbers of blacks in the community. Black leaders are already stirring the pot and building up division and hatred. Michelle herself has said she hopes justice is done in the case because if there isn't many will lose hope for equality and who knows what will happen.

[BilboBagend]

No one can be sure.

Actually true in most cases when the 100% standard is used.

More drivel.

[Leroy]

No one can be sure.

Actually true in most cases when the 100% standard is used.

More drivel.

It's amazing how libidiots only agree with the law/legal system when they can use it to their benefit.

[BilboBagend]

More dishonest self indulgent drivel from liar leroy. Just what we all expect.

[elklindo69]

No one can be sure.

Actually true in most cases when the 100% standard is used.

More drivel.

It's amazing how libidiots only agree with the law/legal system when they can use it to their benefit.

What's Darrell Issa up to now?

How's the IRS investigation going? How much has Darrell dredged up???

:lol:

[Alogicalman]

What we do know, a 28 year old stalks an unarmed 17 year walking to his father's house and is on phone with the police as he stalks him, the 17 year old has no way to know the adult is part of the neighborhood watch, he just knows some creepy guy is following him in the dark, he even told his girl friend that. Something happened that resulted in them coming together and getting into a fight during which the 28 year old shot and killed the 17 year old.

You must ask yourself, who was in more fear when they came together, the armed 28 year old or the 17 year old being stalked in the dark?

[elklindo69]

Only Zimmerman knows the answer...

[lumpster]

It's not over yet but no it doesn't look good for conviction.. But he is guilty of murder let there be no doubt about that..

[Leroy]

What we do know, a 28 year old stalks an unarmed 17 year walking to his father's house and is on phone with the police as he stalks him, the 17 year old has no way to know the adult is part of the neighborhood watch, he just knows some creepy guy is following him in the dark, he even told his girl friend that. Something happened that resulted in them coming together and getting into a fight during which the 28 year old shot and killed the 17 year old.

You must ask yourself, who was in more fear when they came together, the armed 28 year old or the 17 year old being stalked in the dark?

You seem to suffer from racism and hate issues.

It's not "Stalking" to follow a suspicious person going between houses while calling and informing the police of the suspicious person's activity.

It doesn't matter if TM knew that GZ was part of the neighborhood watch program.

What does matter is that the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports, factually, that TM was a violent thug that was known to attack innocent people, was a gang member wanna-be, was high at some point in the past if not that night, was only in the neighborhood because he had proven to be uncontrollable for his mother and she had sent him to live with his father.

You must ask yourself, who was more likely to attack the other - TM: A known violent thug that had a history of attacking innocent people, thefts, drug use, and a racist, or GZ: Someone that had already called the police and knew they were on the way, negating any reason to start a fight with TM.

[RealJustme]

Despite a corrupt legal system who tried to railroad Zimmerman to set things right with blacks, Zimmerman will walk. The judge made so many errors and displayed her bias for a conviction that even if Zimmerman were to be convicted on appeal the conviction would be thrown out.

Today the Judge actually swore Zimmerman in despite his attorneys objections, the Judge told Zimmerman's attorneys to remain quite and asked Zimmerman under oath why he didn't want to testify. When Zimmerman said he wished to remain silent based upon advise of his attorneys, the Judge said he had that right and told him she would give him time to think about it. Even the prosecutor admitted he had never seen a judge take over the prosecution of the case until today.

[Leroy]

Despite a corrupt legal system who tried to railroad Zimmerman to set things right with blacks, Zimmerman will walk. The judge made so many errors and displayed her bias for a conviction that even if Zimmerman were to be convicted on appeal the conviction would be thrown out.

Today the Judge actually swore Zimmerman in despite his attorneys objections, the Judge told Zimmerman's attorneys to remain quite and asked Zimmerman under oath why he didn't want to testify. When Zimmerman said he wished to remain silent based upon advise of his attorneys, the Judge said he had that right and told him she would give him time to think about it. Even the prosecutor admitted he had never seen a judge take over the prosecution of the case until today.

Obama/Holder and their handlers want unrest, so that they can do things like they are trying with this as cover - creating rules that will allow 5,000 Afghan refugees into the country on a quick track, while they hope you're not paying attention.

This is all a scam, GZ is innocent, but they want as much unrest/violence from this decision as their racism can get.

[elklindo69]

[/quote]

You seem to suffer from racism and hate issues.

It's not "Stalking" to follow a suspicious person going between houses while calling and informing the police of the suspicious person's activity.

It doesn't matter if TM knew that GZ was part of the neighborhood watch program.

What does matter is that the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports, factually, that TM was a violent thug that was known to attack innocent people, was a gang member wanna-be, was high at some point in the past if not that night, was only in the neighborhood because he had proven to be uncontrollable for his mother and she had sent him to live with his father.

You must ask yourself, who was more likely to attack the other - TM: A known violent thug that had a history of attacking innocent people, thefts, drug use, and a racist, or GZ: Someone that had already called the police and knew they were on the way, negating any reason to start a fight with TM.[/quote]

You seem to have selective memory.

Zimmerman broke every neighborhood watchman rule out there.

Unless you want to turn the Zimmerman incident into a textbook example of how civilians are supposed to patrol their neighborhoods???

[Leroy]

You seem to have selective memory.

Zimmerman broke every neighborhood watchman rule out there.

Unless you want to turn the Zimmerman incident into a textbook example of how civilians are supposed to patrol their neighborhoods???

Nope, he didn't. In fact, when I was in the Navy, when I was in the USA, on Soil, I was captain of the NW program for our little subdivision, and we had police training and were told to keep suspicious people in site and to get someone to call it in (we didn't have Cell phones back then, at least not affordable ones on a Navy wage scale).

If you look at NW programs, they advise NW members to do exactly what Zimmerman did and to report the suspicious person just like he did - they even describe a suspicious person exactly as TM was described to the police. Most programs advise to not follow someone that they "Suspect could be armed or dangerous" as typical boiler-plate legal protection against their programs/advice getting them sued, but, the cops will, if you've ever been part of a NW program, to follow until they get there, to keep the suspicious person in sight as long as possible and based on your safety comfort level.

Today our police departments, in non-liberal/democrat dominated areas, are advising people to become active in reporting and monitoring, even becoming active in defense in shooter incidents when they believe they are going to be attacked....

Maybe, if you were an honest person, you would actually search for NW program literature online and read a dozen or more programs - then you might be able to speak from knowledge instead of hate filled liberal blog talking points.