[RealJustme]

It's amazing that Greenhouse Gas has so many followers that accuse that don't "believe" it will destroy the earth of blasphemy. Look at the wackos out there, tell them you don't believe in their Greenhouse religion and they blow their tops and ask how can you not "believe". You try and gently remind them that climate changes are something new and it's natural and they'll refute that and ignore history, their religion tell them it's greenhouse gases causing climate changes and dammit you better agree with them. Scientist that sell the religion do it for money and funding otherwise there's no need for their research to save the planet. Thankfully the vast majority of posters on this board haven't bought in the greenhouse gas religion as the death of our planet, for those who have :lol: :lol: :lol:

[johnforbes]

Whatever the science, it is always wise to pause when members of a political party adopt some theory as their own and them mock skeptics as non-believers.

For Democrats, the man-caused Global Warming theory has developed into some sort of religion.

[Clownkicker]

Leave it to RealTool to once again demonstrate the depth of his ignorance on a topic.

The concern about climate change and greenhouse gasses is not about "saving the planet," dimwit.
The planet will do just fine. Always has, always will.
It's about saving the humans.
The planet has shaken off species more successful than ours many times over.


Your suggestion to deal with our climate change problem?
Why, simply whistle past the graveyard and ridicule anyone trying to save you from yourself.


Politics will always be with us.
Some Democrats will get rich off this.
A lot more Republicans will get rich off this, which you will dutifully ignore.
They are not our problem. They're just a nuisance.
Willfully ignorant morons like you are our biggest threat.

[johnforbes]

It would take a scientist to plumb the depth of Clownhicker's ignorance.

Deeper than the Marianas Trench is Clown's ignorance.

[RealJustme]

Your suggestion to deal with our climate change problem?

Instead of spending trillions destroying energy sources and food that causes greenhouse gases, invest in them so we're prepared for any climate changes earth throws at us because we can't stop it, we have to adjust to it.

In that one sentence I provided a reasonable solution based upon facts and reality. Liberals fall back to their religion and fairy dust which if followed will result in failure.

[Clownkicker]

"Deeper than the Marianas Trench is Clown's ignorance."-johnforbes

Will someone tell the day room supervisor that johnforbes thinks he's Yoda again.

That mop handle is not a light saber, johnny.
Stop swinging it around before you hurt one of those 'storm troopers' watching Jeopardy in the TV area.

[Clownkicker]

"In that one sentence I provided a reasonable solution based upon facts and reality."-RealTppl

Sure, just one problem---there isn't anything based on fact or reality in your statement.

Show us just one case of anyone spending a trillion dollars to destroy an energy source or a food source. :lol:
Jesus H. Chrisis, you're gullible.

[johnforbes]

I remember that misty morning in late April of 1954 when young master Clownhicker first logged on.

Modems were made of twisted hickory sticks in those days, of course.

Even back then, the depth of Clownhicker's ignorance made the Marianas Trench seem shallow.

[RealJustme]

Show us just one case of anyone spending a trillion dollars to destroy an energy source or a food source.

The world spent more than that last year as part of the greenhouse religion. That money needs to be freed up dealing with climate changes.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^Translation: "I've got nothing so I will simply make up another lie and hope nobody notices I'm a moron."




Leroy taught you well, Grasshopper.

[johnforbes]

It was 1956 when every person on this forum noticed that Clownhicker was a moron.

[tvd]

Hey Clown...

Can you please enumerate the dire consequences that await us humans when "climate change" takes full effect?
What do you think will happen?
What has convinced you that such effects are inevitable?

I have asked on here before....no one has even tried to answer.
Bilbo surely couldn't answer it...and he is the "climate change" king.

Thanks in advance.

[RealJustme]

Clown had pointed out our coast lines would flood due to melting ice, his religion told him that. The problem with that theory is that ice takes up more volume than water, the water wouldn't rise it would go down. Clown's religion tells him that can't be true but if he were to take a glass of water with ice in it and let the ice melt he would see the water level would drop.


If the oceans go down a tenth of an inch what happens Clown?

[Clownkicker]

tvd, I'm going to stop being an asshole for a moment because you sound like you're asking a serious question.
I may be wrong, you may think you're setting a trap for me, but I don't really care. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

A good, accessible starting point to learn about what is happening to the Earth is an excellent NOVA program called "Earth From Space"

http://video.pbs.org/video/2334144059/

You don't need to take my word for anything. See for yourself as satellite images show you what's actually going on around the globe right now, what has changed, and what it means for our environment and our survival.

I believe the changes in climate are not our greatest worry. Rather, it will be the political ramifications much sooner as people start to have more and more trouble finding fresh water and enough food as traditional supplies collapse and people start to go thirsty and hungry on a mass scale. This will lead to violent conflicts breaking out around the world.

In the U.S. alone we rely on ancient water from the Ogallala Aquifer to provide us with irrigation for over a quarter of our food production. The Ogallala is shrinking at an alarming rate as we consume surface water before it can recharge the aquifer. If fracking toxins mange to seep into our irrigation supplies, we're really in trouble. (Read up on the basics of how aquifers recharge; where the water comes from.) Forget about exporting food to feed the rest of the world. We'll be lucky to feed ourselves. (Of course, mega-corporations like Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto are not going to care if you go hungry and will export our food to the highest bidder.)
California, the source of a third of our produce in the U.S., relies on snow melt for irrigation. Trouble is, the snow melt is dwindling. Almost the entire area of California is suffering drought. The moisture has been diverted by the altered jet stream and dumped on the eastern U.S. instead in the form of 'freak' snow storms.
Crops in Florida have been getting hit by late freezes and even snow in parts of the south, damaging crops there. This will get worse. The cattle industry in Texas has been hit hard by drought and herds have been slaughtered because there is no water.

No single event is going to make or break our food supply in itself, but pile all these things on top of each other and our ability to adapt quickly enough is in question. And the speed of these changes will accelerate.

We are living through one of the largest and fastest collapses of species and biodiversity in Earth's history. There will come a point when the handful of species we live on will fail us, either from disease or drought or natural disasters or human-caused disasters like warfare.
As global temperatures rise and conditions improve for pathogens, more and more like ebola will emerge from the jungles and dust of deserts. Lately we are worried about MERS, the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome from a camel virus that is flying (literally) around the world. The frequency and severity of these outbreaks will increase as we scramble to apply our failing antibiotics and antivirals to a strengthening host of enemies. Eventually we won't be able to keep up medically or financially.

So start by watching the program and tell me if you think this is merely a "liberal religion" or an actual threat.
Remember, it's not just change that is the problem. It is the unprecedented (in the lifetime of homo sapiens) SPEED of the change that is the problem for us.
The environment is such an interconnected system that one small thing can affect everything else. One large thing can be devastating in its consequences. I tend to be pessimistic and suspect that I will live to see a billion or two people die from events triggered by climate change.

Well, on that cheerful note, I've got to get back to kicking RealTool's ass some more.

[RealJustme]

I tend to be pessimistic and suspect that I will live to see a billion or two people die from events triggered by climate change.

The dinosaurs were wiped out by climate change so why would only a billion or two people die? Man can't change the climate we can only prepare to adjust to changes, cutting our resources available to deal with it does more harm than good. In 3 or 4 hundred years from now it could be 2 or 3 degree cooler, people will have to adapt. No one is expecting the drastic climate changes that killed off the dinosaurs to happen that fast.

Hey Clown try that ice in glass science project and let me know if volume increase or decreases as the ice melts. Here's another one that might be easier for you, stick a can of beer in the freezer and let us know what happens to volume when water freezes, your religion would tell us ice increases water volume as it melts so as water is frozen the volume in the can should decrease.

[tvd]

My view on it that yes, the earth appears to be warming. I will concede that.
These is no doubt glaciers are virtually non-existent where once they covered huge areas.
South America (Patagonia) comes to mind.
When I was a kid, in mid North Carolina, we had snows. We were able to sled. The lakes froze over.
This does not happen anymore....yes I think the Earth is warming. Just from my completely subjective observations.

But, I think this is a normal, natural event, and has nothing to do with man causing it.

I 100% believe that all this "manmade global warming" hysteria is strictly for opportunists to obtain funding based on populace fears. Read that as "Al Gore" types. The leading researchers were caught lying about their data.
These people need their government grants, you know. Carbon credits....that is just another way to tax us.
Government money available to "researchers" is the real driving force here.
Currently, man can no more change the weather, than travel in time....currently. But you get man involved with anything nature related....and we will fuck it up.
Look at the Everglades....look at the rain forests.....look at anything that man tries to harness...tame....etc, and it gets fucked up.

Additionally, who says, and why, will this cause a downside? Why couldn't it just as easily be an upside? Parts of the world that had no growing season might be the new farm producers. I don't understand the gloom and doom aspect of all this. It could just as easily be a boom era. Oh yeah, I do understand the gloom and doom aspect....money.

I just remember very vividly the doomsayers in the late seventies during the oil and fuel shortages we had, and their predictions of being out of oil by 2000.
Didn't come true.

And yes, I absolutely was asking a serious question. Thanks for the serious response.

[RealJustme]

Clown is waiting on the beer can to freeze to determine if ice takes up more volume than water.

[Clownkicker]

"The dinosaurs were wiped out by climate change so why would only a billion or two people die?"-RealTool
"No one is expecting the drastic climate changes that killed off the dinosaurs to happen that fast."-RealTool 3 sentences later

You just answered your own stupid, fake question.

As to your other silly question, about the glass of melting ice/water level crap, you're only exhibiting your ignorance of the problem again.

The rising sea levels will be the result of ice melting, but you don't seem to understand what ice we are talking about.
Your phony "gotcha" ice cube-in-water test has nothing to do with this.
You are apparently confusing the melting Arctic polar cap problem with the problem of sea level rise.
The Arctic ice cap problem is about losing species like the polar bear that need the ice to survive.

But the sea level rise will be caused by the melting of massive ice sheets resting on Greenland and Antarctica, all of it sitting above current sea level. There is enough water tied up in those two ice sheets to raise sea level more than 200 feet if they were to melt entirely. This is including the amount sea level would drop because of the rise of the land masses that would occur if the ice were not pressing them down any longer.
(And don't go saying I think sea level will rise 200 feet. It won't. I'm just giving you a clue about how much water we are talking about so that you don't believe a rise of 10 or 20 or even 50 feet is physically impossible.)

You need to stop getting your scientific news from FOX and Breitbart.
They are not your friends.
You're their tool.

[johnforbes]

Ice sheets?

Clownhicker certainly is full of sheet.

[Intrepid]

As for the TV program NOVA...

I've told this here before, but it bears repeating. A few years ago I was channel surfing and came across an episode of NOVA that was originally broadcast sometime in the early '70s. It was narrated by Leonard Nimoy (Spock, from the original Star Trek). I watched fascinated as Mr. Nimoy informed us in the most serious tones possible that unless we did something
RIGHT NOW!
the entire North American continent as far south as Phoenix, AZ. would be covered by a sheet of ice 11 feet thick (how they settled on such an arbitrary number as 11feet was not disclosed). The time frame given for this impending ice doom was right about now.

No doubt someone from PBS was taken to the woodshed over allowing that particular program to escape to be broadcast right in the middle of the staged hysteria over man caused global warming.

And, in other news of unrealized disasters, shouldn't we all by now be dead or at least severely sunburned as a result of the ozone hole described by Al Gore and caused by our unrelenting and profligate use of underarm deodorant spray?

[RealJustme]

But the sea level rise will be caused by the melting of massive ice sheets resting on Greenland and Antarctica, all of it sitting above current sea level. There is enough water tied up in those two ice sheets to raise sea level more than 200 feet if they were to melt entirely.

Raise sea level by 200 feet :lol: :lol: :lol: If a sheet of ice melts volume goes down, you'll have a lower level fresh water lake at the most even it were to melt which would take 10's of thousands of years by then climate will change again, it's a cycle dude, live with it. 200 feet :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clownkicker]

"And don't go saying I think sea level will rise 200 feet. It won't."-me

"Raise sea level by 200 feet :lol: :lol: :lol: If a sheet of ice melts volume goes down, you'll have a lower level fresh water lake at the most even it were to melt which would take 10's of thousands of years by then climate will change again, it's a cycle dude, live with it. 200 feet:lol: :lol: :lol:"-stupid fuck


Like I've said before: "You can't fix stupid."

[RealJustme]

Clown tries to back track his statements, we took his words out of context. What really happened is that beer can exploded in his freezer and now he has to unlearn everything his religion taught him. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[snakeoil]

Instead of spending trillions destroying energy sources and food that causes greenhouse gases, invest in them so we're prepared for any climate changes earth throws at us because we can't stop it, we have to adjust to it.

Please, everyone. Read this post by Justme and think about what he is saying. This is what we are up against in trying to save ourselves from ourselves.

[RealJustme]

Please, everyone. Read this post by Justme and think about what he is saying. This is what we are up against in trying to save ourselves from ourselves.

Yep, survival over making a few people rich following the greenhouse gas religion. We should be investing those trillions in coal, oil and natural gas so that we're prepared for any climate changes and what ever any country can throw at us. The greenhouse religion has us investing trillions doing just the opposite, making us weaker and less prepared while squandering our tax money making a few rich around the world.

The greenhouse religion would have all us giving 10% our income to the church, they've seen other religions do it.

[Clownkicker]

"But, I think this is a normal, natural event, and has nothing to do with man causing it."-tvd

Of course "normal" is a difficult word to apply because we would need to agree on what it means first."Natural" can also be tricky.
"Normal" is usually used to say that nothing unusual is occurring. This is not the case. Something unusual is indeed happening. Does that mean it is not simply nature doing what it does? No, but it is not "normal" "typical" "similar to past behavior" within the historical conditions that have been in place for the past 11,000 years.

I could argue that anything humans do is "natural" because we are a part of the natural world and our behaviors are no less "natural" than that of lions or ants. So if our behavior has drastically changed the environment, well, that's perfectly "natural" so leave it alone.
But what is usually meant in this type of discussion is that if humans still practiced a subsistence lifestyle, what would conditions be like? Would the planet still be warming at the present rate? Would there still be a massive die-off of species and such rapid and drastic climatic changes occurring? If so, then our application of technology may be the only thing saving us from a hostile world.

Read this short article on historic global temperatures.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... 3olS3ZmkY4
This article has larger versions of the graph that are easier to read. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... it/273870/

Look at the upward spike that occurs over the last 100 years. Would you call this "normal" relative to the last 11,000 years? Has this pattern occurred before? Has ANY pattern with similarly rapid change occurred?
No. So I wouldn't apply the term "normal" to what we are witnessing.
If you take "normal" to mean "still within the historical range of temperature for the past 11,000 years," then yes, for the moment it is still "normal". But keep in mind that the temperature change during the past 100 years has reversed 11,000 years of normal, gradual temperature changes. Is this within the "normal" behavior of the planet?
If this recent trend continues, Earth will exceed the historical "normal" range of temperature within a few decades.

Your question is, is it "natural"? That is, is it something that would have occurred whether we were here or not, all of it being caused by Earth's rotational wobble and sun spots and other features of our physical world?
You need to look at the information and draw your best conclusion as to the likeliest explanation for the historically unusual changes taking place.
Drawing the conclusion that it is all just a coincidence, that the unusual and rapid spike in temperature that could soon exceed historical limits just happens to be occurring at exactly the time humans have been dumping large quantities of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping compounds into the atmosphere, is a possible position to take. If you believe in coincidence, if this is your only explanation and what you believe, then I would be frightened if I were you. If something unusual is occurring that is a threat to our survival and for which we have no explanation, no way to understand it, we're really in trouble and we don't know what we could do to mitigate it or plan for the future.

We are dealing with fools like RealTool who argue that you can put a lake of 7 million cubic miles of water on top of a mountain and it will just sit there and miraculously refuse to flow down to the ocean. That is the mindset of those on your side of the issue.
If you really believe it is likely that all the tens of thousands of scientists working on climate around the world, from every discipline and every political and economic system are all just a bunch of liars and aren't actually concerned with what's occurring and are only looking to ride the gravy train, then I suggest you don't know any scientists.
My biggest worry is that someday lay people might actually get to understand what the scientists already know, and they will panic. Then it won't be pretty.




"Additionally, who says, and why, will this cause a downside? Why couldn't it just as easily be an upside? Parts of the world that had no growing season might be the new farm producers. I don't understand the gloom and doom aspect of all this. It could just as easily be a boom era. Oh yeah, I do understand the gloom and doom aspect....money."-tvd

You're probably right, some areas like Canada and Russia will do quite well as their growing seasons lengthen and agricultural production climbs, assuming they can get water to the right places at the right times. Big "if" there. But the gloom and doom aspect of this comes from realizing that all those living in the areas that will become uninhabitable aren't simply going to go away. Is johnforbes going to allow them to immigrate to the U.S.? Is any country in the temperate latitudes going to throw open their doors and accept a billion people? "Let 'em get in line with everyone else and wait until they die."-johnforbes (paraphrased)

Humans will behave as humans do. Look back at history and you will see what's coming down the pike when resources get scarce and the future holds no hope for them.
If that doesn't make you want to do anything possible to mitigate the scale of the problems we face, I don't know what will.

[RealJustme]

Of course "normal" is a difficult word to apply because we would need to agree on what it means first."Natural" can also be tricky.
"Normal" is usually used to say that nothing unusual is occurring. This is not the case. Something unusual is indeed happening.

Yep, this time we have humans trying to make money off of climate changes and the gullible minions want everyone to be forced into giving their religious leaders money. That's the only difference in this climate change.

As late as 200 years ago religious leaders made the minions give up their daughters or sacrificies to the climate gods giving the exact same pitches they're using today.