[lumpster]

This is the stuff we grew up knowing.. When I was in grade school we dove under the desk for our nuclear bomb test drills cause we just knew the commies were going to hit our city cause we had 12 GM plants at the time. Can this be worked out with Politics or will Russia go to war with Ukraine with the help of the west?

[johnforbes]

I agree this is what we grew up with.

But Obama didn't, which is why even the liberal editorial board of the Washington Post looked at the Ukraine/Crimea and said Obama's foreign policy was based on (quoting them) "fantasy."

[lumpster]

In this case I do believe the EU should have the lead on this they have more trade with Russia. The USA should sit in the background and let Russia know that we stand with the west.

[sillydaddy]

During his first term, Obama's favorite saying was," One thing I learned as President...." Well, he didn't learn shit...and he didn't know shit to begin with.

All previous Presidents knew that when it comes to foreign policy if your going to talk the talk, you better be ready to walk the walk.

There are those that still criticize GW for not diving head first into a similar mess back in 2008. At the exact time Putin attacked Georgia, Obama was being elected President. It seems Putin knew, even then, that Obama was no match for him......but little did he know just how weak Obama was going to turn out.

Now Obama has us looking like idiots.

[lumpster]

During his first term, Obama's favorite saying was," One thing I learned as President...." Well, he didn't learn shit...and he didn't know shit to begin with.

All previous Presidents knew that when it comes to foreign policy if your going to talk the talk, you better be ready to walk the walk.

There are those that still criticize GW for not diving head first into a similar mess back in 2008. At the exact time Putin attacked Georgia, Obama was being elected President. It seems Putin knew, even then, that Obama was no match for him......but little did he know just how weak Obama was going to turn out.

Now Obama has us looking like idiots.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you .. Obama has been a bigger war time President then even Bush, He's called in more air strikes then Bush and he ramped up the troops in Afghanistan before the draw down. Obama has no problem matching Putin.. He's the first American President to stand up to the Russian and join in with the other allies to scantion Russia for it's actions.. Bush didn't do it in 2008 when Putin Invaded Georgia..

[johnforbes]

Google the Battle of Stalingrad, in which 1.2 million were killed.

The Russians are much, much, much tougher than some community organizer from Chicago who only got where he is today by being biracial.

It has nothing to do with drone strikes. Obama never had any desire to be involved in Afghanistan; he just called it the right war because he didn't like Iraq.

And what did Obama achieve in Afghanistan or in Iraq, given his 5 plus years? Nothing.

[RealJustme]

The Russians are much, much, much tougher than some community organizer from Chicago who only got where he is today by being biracial.

KGB verse ACCORN = we lose.

[sillydaddy]

He's the first American President to stand up to the Russian and join in with the other allies to scantion Russia for it's actions. ~ lumpster

How is Obama standing up to the Russian? By wagging his finger at him and telling him there will be "consequences"? What consequences? Putin is asking that same question. Maybe Obama means he's not going to let Putin help with Syria anymore!

[Clownkicker]

^^^This from our hypocrite who actually started a thread telling us we should use the dollar as a weapon.

Then when he realizes Obama has been doing just that and ramping up the number of frozen assets, all of a sudden sillyass says it's nothing.

So I guess you're going to come back and tell us you were wrong saying Obama should use the dollar as a weapon, right sillyhypocrite?

[boyohboy]

Kinda looks to me its quickly coming time to put up or shut up.
Arming Ukraine is only playing into Putin's strong hand, he would not only win that confrontation but would give him the excuse to invade Ukraine.
At the moment Putin has the power over western Europe in the oil and natural gas he sells to run their economies. Until that is replaced Putin will have his way.
We the United states must find a way to guarantee new oil to Europe before any meaningful sanctions can take effect.
So be ready to put up or shut up. Fuel costs are going up.
We also need to help Ukraine with Funds to bolster their new government. Not with weapons, but aid to their economy.
So be ready to put up or shut up, our debt is going to go up as we send billions to Ukraine to bolster their economy.
That should be our resolve, and its going to cost us. So help Ukraine's economy, help Europe replace Russian energy exports, that should be our strategy, not missiles, not guns, hit Russia where its weak, its economy from oil exports, shut that down.

[BilboBagend]

ROFLMAO

Lumpy states a rational thread and the usual crowd of wacko morons do just as everyone expects with their delusional kneejerk shit mouth.

[johnforbes]

Seriously, go Google the Battle of Stalingrad.

Over a million were killed.

Over a million.

The fight between the Nazis and the Russians was astoundingly bitter.

Then go look at all the soul-searching Americans did over the 4000 or so killed in Iraq/Aghan.

After that, tell me how you think the U.S. can equal Russian toughness.

[Clownkicker]

So johnforbes believes we didn't stand a chance against Russia vis a vis Crimea in the first place.
Then he criticizes Obama for not marching in with troops. :lol:

johnny, you have to realize that if someone invaded the U.S. and besieged New York City, over a million would die there as well.
The 4000 in Iraq, where we shouldn't have been in the first place and thus the deaths were needless and worse than pointless since Bush ended up making Iraq's nonexistent terrorist problem into an actual problem, should make everyone do some soul searching.
But attack the U.S. homeland and millions would die here as well.

The two things are not even related.
Invading someone is not the same as being invaded.
That you compare the two as if they are related shows an utter void in your critical thinking ability, not to mention your 'dubious morality' department.

[Schumacher2014]

Seriously John, this "crisis" was started in Kiev, not in Crimea nor in Moscow!

The Russians only did what they had to do: secure their black sea fleet for once and for all!
The US would've done exactly the same thing if one of your most important naval bases was at stake!

I think it would be really refreshening if the west was capable of self-reflection and realise it was the EU and NATO constantly expanding eastwards towards the Russian border and not the other way around!
But apparently at some point in time, the west has lost this ability and now ignorantly thinks it is right in each and everything they do!

It was only a matter of time before a red line was crossed and Moscow would no longer sit there and let it all happen, but finally stand up for their own self interest, draw the line and make it clear that enough is enough!

Yes the USA looks weak and so does the EU, but only because their arguments are weak and they know it!
The west has been invading souvereign countries, bombing cities and toppling regimes across the globe, wherever they see fit, and yet now they want to tell Putin that he is violating international law?
Vlad rarely smiles but I'm sure that at least made him chuckle!

This crisis won't be solved John because there is absolutely nothing the west CAN do to make Putin back down in Crimea!

If the EU and the USA were really serious and had the arguments and morals on THEIR side, all they had to do, is to take the Ukraine into the EU and NATO as a full member right here and now!

Are you gonna hold your breath for that one John?

I won't!

All they will do is bad mouth Putin for the next few weeks, throw some sanctions at him here and there and if history is anything to go by, they'll support the wrong people in the Ukraine again with shitloads of money, making the wrong people rich and powerfull and that shithole will remain a shithole!

Russia bad, yeah
but the USA and the EU were caught with their pants down taking a dump in the neighbours garden, again...

[sillydaddy]

No Clown........Obama has placed sanctions against 11 individuals that may not even have investments in the US. All other sanctions against individuals have been placed by the EU. Meanwhile Putin has gone ahead and made Crimea part of Russia. He has placed his own sanctions against some US individuals including a travel ban on Boehner! This tells us sanctions mean nothing to them.

Obama is being a pussy.

If Obama wants to gain some respect, then he should go after Putin himself. Putin is all about money. He care nothing about the Russians in Crimea nor his buddies that are being sanctioned, only about the money he will personally make from the acquisition.
It has been reported that Putin's personal net worth is 75 billion dollars. The way to get his attention is to attack his fortune, his investments. Place import boycotts on the industries that will hurt him personally, like UAC, they export military and civilian aircraft all over the world. That's only one example.

[Clownkicker]

First of all, sillydaddy, you don't shoot your wad at the first salvo.
Secondly, you start by letting other guys do your dirty work, if possible. Thus the sanctions against others with power in Russia.
Thirdly, if we can get the E.U. to do our dirty work for us, so much the better. It's called leadership and it's their problem, not ours.

Haven't you clowns learned anything about committing our resources and lives to deal with other people's problems?

[RealJustme]

Obama created the political environment that's allowed Russia, Syria, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan and Iran to all become not only more anti-American but stronger enemies, he's also lost Iraq and Afgan both of which are far bigger threats to America than they were before Obama became President. Not one of our allies now trust the United States to keep their word or to come to their aid if needed.

It's not what Obama should do now, it's what he should have done to prevent all of the above.

[BilboBagend]

justupid as always, as well as the faux and silly ass. Nothing more than false bravado and delusions. Three tough morons in an armchair withy nothing beyond malice to post.

Three useless turds.

[johnforbes]

Obama already showed what he would do in a crisis vis-a-vis Putin.

Obama went to Florida to escape the snow, and to golf with Alonzo Mourning.

Obama read to kids at an elem school.

Obama went to a soul concert paid for by taxpayers.

Obama's wife took the 2 kids on a school vacation trip to China courtesy of taxpayers.

As to Putin, Obama didn't do a single solitary thing.

[sillydaddy]

As always, Bilbo has no opinion on what is being discussed.

[Schumacher2014]

This is not a Russia crisis, nor a Crimea crisis, it IS in fact a Ukraine crisis, made in Kiev, powered by the west!

And there's only one reason why the west is looking weak in this whole charade, because once again they've been caught with their pants down, supporting the wrong people for the wrong reasons!

For the past 20 years, the west has been invading souvereign nations all across the globe, bombing cities and toppling regimes, ever when we saw our own intererest at stake, completely regardless of international law, again and again!

At the same time, the west has been expanding eastwards towards the russian border, one by one former warshau pact nations became EU and NATO members, completely disregarding promises made to Moscow after the falling of the Berlin Wall in '89 that there would be NO eastwards expansion of NATO.

It was only a matter of time before the Russians would draw a line and stand up and saw enough is enough!
The toppling of the government in Kiev by so called "freedom fighters" sponsored by west, was exactly that line!

What our policitianc and the our media have been conveniently ignoring, is the fact that a sizeable portion of Kiev's new "democratic" government - and the protesters who brought it to power - are plain and pure fascists and I personally find it despictable that our governments are supporting that scum just to wave their middle finger in Putins face!

Let's be frank gents, if a very important naval base of NATO had been at stake in such a way, and western interest had been at stake, the west would've done exactly the same damn thing and wouldn't have cared a fucking dime about Russian or Ukrainian sentiments in the process!

So yeah sure, the west is looking weak in this whole thing, but only because they're on the wrong side of the argument and caught with their pants down, making love with Facists assholes in Kiev just to annoy the Ruskies!

There's only two ways this crisis can go:

a) either the west realises that they were in bed with the wrong guys for the wrong reasons and were caught in the act and get over their butthurt and accepts the fact that Putin just HAD to do what he did!

b) the west goes absolutely insane and offers Kiev a full NATO membership to "protect" them from the ruskies and we'll end up with WWIII

Just hope it'll be option a, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath!

[tvd]

Thirdly, if we can get the E.U. to do our dirty work for us, so much the better. It's called leadership and it's their problem, not ours.

So we let someone else do our dirty work....your words....and you call that leadership?!!!!

I have no opinion on this subject...therefore I am a true leader..... :lol: :lol:

[johnforbes]

The EU won't do anything about it because it depends on Russia for gas.

[Clownkicker]

"I have no opinion on this subject...therefore I am a true leader....."-TVdunce

If we had no opinion on the subject we wouldn't need anyone to do anything for us, now would we, you dimwit.

Yes, that you get others together and get them to pull their own weight where otherwise they would do nothing is leadership.
You really need to get a clue about international geopolitics.

[johnforbes]

Clownhicker is such a clown that the National Geographic may be doing a series on him.

[Clownkicker]

Yes, last year they launched an expedition to look for any sign of wit in johnforbes' brain.

After rattling around in there for two weeks they emerged to announce that there wasn't even any sign of intelligence to be found, let alone wit.
Just a bunch of ratty, torn diplomas gathering dust in a corner.

[tvd]

Clown....no matter how you spin it, as you described in your own post, standing by letting others do the dirty work is NOT LEADERSHIP.

[Clownkicker]

TVdunce, you can't put words into my mouth and then pretend I said them.

I said nothing about "standing by".
We are, of course, doing something as Obama coaxes Europe to do something as well where otherwise they might not.

[RealJustme]

Clown- We are, of course, doing something as Obama coaxes Europe to do something

You can't make this shit up!

Obama couldn't lead a girl scout squad.

[Clownkicker]

What do you mean "You can't make this shit up!"?

You "make this shit up" every day here. :lol:

[tvd]

Thirdly, if we can get the E.U. to do our dirty work for us, so much the better. It's called leadership and it's their problem, not ours.

To me, that reads as "standing by". Call it taking the back seat, keeping a low profile, out of the limelight, ....whatever....IT AIN'T LEADERSHIP!!!!

That's my point...not that you actually didn't use the words "stand by."

[tvd]

We are, of course, doing something as Obama coaxes Europe to do something as well where otherwise they might not.

What makes you think Europe will do ANYTHING Obama "coaxes"? He ain't a leader. He's golfing. He's at the mall.

(You did use the word "coaxes" didn't you?...Ah yes...there it is....)

[Clownkicker]

"To me, that reads as "standing by"." -tvd

Can I help it if you have a reading comprehension problem?
And since you can't seem to grasp colloquialisms, our "dirty work" is not necessarily something bad. It is just the stuff we don't want to do and shouldn't have to do.
There's nothing wrong with cleaning the restaurant's restroom, but you don't want the chef to be doing it unless he absolutely has to. You want the guy whose job it is to do it, as he properly should.


Lumpster has it right saying the E.U. should be taking the lead. Ukraine is not in NATO, so it isn't our problem....yet. It IS, however, Europe's problem.
As johnforbes said, the E.U. doesn't want to do anything because they need Russia's gas.
That Obama got them on board with sanctions against their short-term self-interest is something that needed to be coaxed out of them. (You know, coaxed: to persuade gradually, right? They weren't the first there. We were.) They would rather not, but, after phone calls from the U.S., they are following the U.S. lead in sanctions against powerful people in hopes that they will put pressure on Putin.

Freezing Putin's money as a first step probably would have no affect on him. He has plenty of money in Russia.
Right now he doesn't care, he wants power and is willing to pay the price for it.
His rich friends who make money in international business? Maybe not so much. Hurting their overall economy is our only chance to "coax"<--- Putin back into a less belligerent stance.

tvd says "Obama is being a pussy."
Apparently tvd thinks freezing one bank account over another is the defining attribute in "being a man". :lol:
Again, Ukraine is not our problem, so "being a man" could only mean sending the military since anything else we do by butting our nose in to apply pressure will make it look like Obama is a "pussy" to tvd.
The U.S. interest in this issue is that it is not in our interest to have war break out on the continent and we will do what we can to prevent it. We can't stop Putin by threatening to go to war with him. That would only feed his popularity.

[RealJustme]

Clown- We are, of course, doing something as Obama coaxes Europe to do something

Now the clown is trying to wiggle out of his statement above. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clownkicker]

Don't take my word for it, RealTool.
Turn on some news that isn't pure FOX or Breitbart propaganda.
Find out what's actually going on in the world instead of getting your report about 'how bad Obama is today'.

[RealJustme]

To late Clown, you can't walk your words back, the cat is out of the bag.

[sillydaddy]

"Again, Ukraine is not our problem,....." ~ Clown

"The U.S. interest in this issue is that it is not in our interest to have war break out on the continent....." ~ Clown


"You really need to get a clue about international geopolitics......" ~ Clown

[Clownkicker]

Are you just acting stupid or are you really this stupid, sillydodo?

Those two statements do not contradict each other.
Your neighbor's children are not your problem, they're your neighbor's problem, as conservatives are always quick to point out.
That doesn't mean you don't have an interest in how they grow up.
But you don't break down their door and barge in with guns and tell them how to raise their kids just because you don't like the late night drumming next door.

[johnforbes]

The drumbeat of Clownhicker's silly commentary would drive any rational person to act.

[Benny]

What a thread.


Owned. :lol:

[RealJustme]

Clown- Your neighbor's children are not your problem, they're your neighbor's problem

Maybe if they weren't your neighbors :lol: :lol: :lol:

[lumpster]

See this is why the USA should have never gotten mixed up in this Ukraine mess you have Yulia Tymoshenko running her mouth talking about what she'd do to the Russians when in fact she's not able to do a damn thing but get a bunch of people killed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine- ... ans-2014-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


It's clear that people of Ukraine have hatred for the Russian speaking people of their country.. They are the ones pushing Russia to react and you have fatasses like John McCain over there stirring the pot.

[lumpster]

Now she's talked up 30,000 Russian troops on their border..

[BilboBagend]

It sounds like she's very close to some loud mouthed U.S. Senators and teabaggers.

[RealJustme]

Now she's talked up 30,000 Russian troops on their border..

That was two days ago, now it's 100,000 Russian troops on their border...in the mean time Obama is, uh no one knows what he's doing, oh yeah he working on special rights for immigrants to find a way to avoid our immigration laws.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-claims-10 ... kAs3_QtDMD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lumpster]

Now she's talked up 30,000 Russian troops on their border..

That was two days ago, now it's 100,000 Russian troops on their border...in the mean time Obama is, uh no one knows what he's doing, oh yeah he working on special rights for immigrants to find a way to avoid our immigration laws.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-claims-10 ... kAs3_QtDMD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well maybe she'll get to show us just how she's going to kill all them Russians.. McCain and the non Russian speaking Ukraine have caused all this..

[BilboBagend]

Putin caused this, and only Putin. Yes, he is looking for excuses and he will find excuses. If not the protest against he puppet as now then something else would have been drummed up.

McCain is just a dupe who can't avoid crying for another war. Much like many other war mongers.

It's not an easy, nice, or safe world. This is much too complicated and dangerous for either the peace at all costs or war at every opportunity morons to have much influence and still maintain any kind of reasonable world. Giving into the extremes yields the most dangerous destructive, and costly paths. Too many people are completely willing to spend the productivity and lives of people on wars and never on the welfare of the people.

Putin is a real huge threat in his region. Without nuclear weapons the world would simply laugh at him. Another Kim Jong Un with even grander delusions and more power.

[johnforbes]

In general, Blabo -- er, Bilbo -- is not that bright.

[RealJustme]

Putin is a real huge threat in his region. Without nuclear weapons the world would simply laugh at him. Another Kim Jong Un with even grander delusions and more power.

Putin is no Kim Jong, he's probably the strongest world leader of today. At every move over the last 5 years Putin has out maneuvered the West, especially Obama. The first thing Obama did when he took office is start reducing our nuclear weapons and missile defense capabilities. The next thing he did was start tearing our military apart by opening it up to single mothers and gays. Now he cutting them to below pre world war ll levels.

Obama is more on par with Kim Jong, Putin is out of both of their leagues.

[BilboBagend]

Yes, we know justupid. You admire extremist radical reactionary tyrants who squash freedom and equality.