[sillydaddy]

"... Investigators are looking into the possibility that migrants had breached a wall with Mexico before an SUV carrying 25 people collided with a tractor-trailer, killing 13 of them in one of the deadliest border crashes on record, an official said Wednesday. .."

CNN.." Joe Biden's administration is encouraging the elimination of the use of the term "alien" or "illegal alien" in favor of "undocumented individual" or "undocumented noncitizen" in all official documents, outreach efforts and other communications, to describe those in the US who are not citizens. It's a significant development that is welcomed by advocates of the undocumented, since the long-standing use of "alien" is a not-so-subtle dog whistle that has been effectively used to dehumanize not only the undocumented, but actual American citizens.

Biden stopped the construction of the wall, signaling the 'All Clear" to aliens legal and illegal....
What did Joe think was going to happen?

[johnforbes]

Media outlets will cover up the real implications of this story, of course.

[elklindo69]

The Gov. of Texass will be responsible for more avoidable infections and deaths from COVID-19 than all the undocumented immigrants coming across the Texas border, combined.

First they had the grid fuck up....now this shithole Gov. is trying to kill his constituents......AGAIN!

[johnforbes]

Elkin's ancestors were Neanderthals, and he does proudly bear their physical appearance.

[elklindo69]

20+ million COVID-19 infections.

500,000+ COVID-19 deaths.

Children are freezing to death in Texas.

Billions spent on some stupid wall which is already crumbling down.

An "INSURRECTION"

This is what they call Republican "Governance."

[sillydaddy]

Now elk...
you know the governor of NY is responsible for Covid deaths and there is real evidence of that...
So you're lying when you blame all Covid deaths on Republicans.

[johnforbes]

Elkin is also being dishonest about the total of covid deaths.

CDC says every one has an average of 2.6 other co-morbid condtions, so they are capturing deaths WITH covid and not just BECAUSE of it.

[elklindo69]

What you are claiming is what the Russians did to undercount the COVID-19 deaths in Russia. They later admitted the numbers they reported were erroneous,

[Clownkicker]

johnforbes really has trouble with scientific terminology.

The doctors and coroners list the "underlying cause of death" as COVID-19.

For the Trump supporters among us, that means that if they didn't contract COVID, they wouldn't have died when they did. They died BECAUSE of COVID, regardless of any co-morbid conditions, and the proof of this is seen in the excess death statistics. In a normal year they wouldn't have died from their pre-existing conditions.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm
Go down to the chart titled "Weekly number of deaths (from all causes)" to see how many died as a direct result of COVID.
Anything above the yellow line is accounted for only by COVID. Nearly all of those who died "WITH" COVID died "BECAUSE" of COVID. That's why doctors cite it as the "underlying cause of death" on their death certificates. Accept it.

You have to speak the same language as scientists if you are going to pretend to make meaningful science-supported statements, johnny. You can't simply make up your own definitions for words in order to obscure the scientific facts for your partisan political agenda.


Why can't you be honest about the total number of COVID deaths, johnny? Why are so afraid of the facts?

[johnforbes]

I was being honest, as always.

The typical covid death comes with an average of 2.6 other co-morbid conditions, per the CDC.

Thus, the death count hysterically reported on TV every night is very, very misleading.

[Clownkicker]

It's not misleading at all, johnny. COVID has killed over 2 1/2 million people worldwide.

You are just too stupid to understand the science behind an "underlying cause of death."

That takes a grasp of medical science and its terminology, which you obviously lack.

All those people died BECAUSE of COVID according to scientists. You are clearly not educated in science or you would accept its globally accepted terminology instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel looking for a semantic game you believe makes you a winner in a losing argument.

You are nothing but a partisan hack trying to c l o u d the science and make excuses for Trump's incompetence.

What is it about his asshole that makes you want to keep your nose stuck in there so badly?

[johnforbes]

No, it is media outlets trying to expand the death count and ascribe it all to covid.

Everybody has heard tales of the flu vanishing because of the pressure to code as covid to get more funds allocated to that purpose.

As to co-morbidity, it is crucial in the case of covid because, unlike the Spanish Flu of 1918, covid kills the elderly, and the obese and diabetic and those with COPD are particularly on the list.

That is the science, and it is blithe and intellectually lazy to just cite the media figure on covid deaths.

[elklindo69]

Well if you don't 'believe' the media figures then you can go and check the data directly provided by the CDC.

The cause of death is determined by the attending physicians not the media.

[johnforbes]

Actually, coding under the ICD has always been related to money.

Health insurance and stats are part and parcel of medicine, and any doctor or nurse will confirm that.

The CDC itself admitted that an average of 2.6 other co-morbid conditions accompanied, or caused, the typical covid death.

Using the total number of deaths, as Elkin did, is a good example of how to lie with statistics.

[elklindo69]

The cause of death is determined by the attending physicians. These determinations are scientific and objective.

John Forbes is making a feeble attempt to muddy the water by claiming that the cause of death can't be determined becuase there are certain comorbidities which are present.

The attending physician knows how long a patient would have survived....if they didn't contract COVID-19.

For instance, there are patients who have heart disease, who would have survived for many years if they were never infected with COVID-19. So this nutty Qanon idea that a death certificate of a patient with a number of aliments in addition to COVID-19 means that the person did not really die from the virus is simply a lie.

[johnforbes]

Actually, they can only estimate.

Now granted, this is not a simple calculation.

But there was a reason the CDC kept this info, and reported it, and that is because it was true:

AN AVERAGE OF 2.6 OTHER CO-MORBID CONDITIONS ACCOMPANIED OR CAUSED THE TYPICAL COVID DEATH

Saying x number died due to covid, as leftists do, is dishonest.

[elklindo69]

Lies....dammed lies and there is John Forbes dishonesty.

You have half of the population that has heart disease. And if they didn't have COVID-19 then they would have survived. The same goes for people with asthma and so on.

Now to say that a comorbidity was the cause of death when they were infected with COVID-19 is just outright dishonest.

[johnforbes]

Elkin, you misunderstand.

It isn't a co-morbidity which kills while excluding covid, but the combo.

78 percent of all those hospitalized for covid were fat.

Saying -- as the media does -- that covid killed x number is dishonest because it was many factors, including the usual (old age, diabetes, exogenous obesity).

[elklindo69]

The claim that the CDC “admitted that only 6% of… (COVID-19-related) deaths recorded actually died from Covid” is false, because the remaining 94% of cases were instances of comorbidity (the existence of two or more conditions or illnesses in a patient). This does not exclude COVID-19, but combines it with other illnesses, often triggered by the new coronavirus itself.

An emailed statement to Reuters from the Mortality Statistics Branch at the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) said death certificates, filled out by a physician, medical examiner, or coroner, list any causes or conditions that contributed to the person’s death, determined based on the medical expertise of that professional. The condition “that began the chain of events that ultimately led to the person’s death” is considered the person’s “underlying cause of death.”

In these cases, this would be COVID-19.

[johnforbes]

Come on, Elkin, let's be serious.

Nobody said it excluded covid.

Obviously that was a factor.

94 percent had other co-morbid conditions, and they revolved around exogenous obesity, diabetes mellitus, and HBP -- the "usual suspects" to quote the great line from "Casablanca."

[Clownkicker]

johnforbes still criticizes the panicked response to the HIV crisis in the 80s.

He believes the virus should have been allowed to run its course unimpeded, without any intervention, so that Americans could quickly reach herd immunity to HIV, no matter how many died to get there.

After all, johnforbes knows nobody ever died of HIV. It is a non-lethal virus. It only destroys the immune system and let's you go happily on your way.

It is wrong in johnny's mind to hold HIV responsible for the deaths of those who contracted the virus. After all, every victim of HIV actually died of pneumonia or cancer or some other illness.

johnforbes still argues they didn't die "from" HIV, but only died "with" HIV. To this day johnforbes doesn't understand why medical professionals said the underlying cause of death was HIV. He certainly doesn't believe there should have been public money wasted on a public health response to the virus.

[johnforbes]

No, that is just projecting onto me.

Granted, this issue was close to Clownswisher's heart, but I know nothing about it.