[johnforbes]

Gilead Sciences Inc has priced its COVID-19 drug candidate remdesivir at $2,340 for a five-day treatment in the United States and some other developed countries, potentially reflecting looming competition from a cheap steroid.

[johnforbes]

Cost for 5 days of HCQ, zinc, and zpack, about 150 bucks.

Now we know why Fauci et al. were so opposed to giving HCQ a try.

[Clownkicker]

Stop making up stupid shit, johnny. NO ONE was against "giving HCQ a try." You made it up.

That's why scientists started a dozen trials around the world to test its efficacy and safety.

Only a moron would take it without knowing it would do any good.

( I'm talking about you and Trump, in case you are too stupid to catch my drift.)

Now, if the trials prove HCQ works, then your stock in the expensive drug company could plummet and you'll look like an even bigger idiot.

[johnforbes]

Clown, you are in role reversal.

You should be against capitalism and in favor of the cheap available drug HCQ.

Every institutional source, from Fauci on, was against HCQ before they even knew if it would work or not.

Why was the NIH test halted?

As an investor, I like money, but not this way.

[Clownkicker]

Why would I be against capitalism, johnny? I am a capitalist.

I just don't believe capitalism should run our government (which is a socialist operation. Read your Constitution fer gawds sake.)


"Why was the NIH test halted?"-johnflubs

Because the study showed early on that it was ineffective, of course. And more of those who took HCQ were dying versus the control group.


"Every institutional source, from Fauci on, was against HCQ before they even knew if it would work or not."-johnfibs

No, every institutional source was against prescribing and distributing ANY drug before they even know if it would work or not. You always leave out that little detail, you dishonest turd. People trained in science require evidence that a drug is safe and effective. That's because they are medical doctors, not Trumpian witch doctors as conservatives want.
Except when they get sick themselves, of course. Then they suddenly want the real deal and would vociferously sue any doctor prescribing untested medications.

Conservatives believe they can do any stupid thing they want with impunity (like not wear masks, take unproven drugs, and go out drinking and partying in crowded rooms or Trump pep rallies) because they believe their magical God will "miraculously" save them from themselves. Only he won't, as any rational person already knows. (which leaves out johnforbes)

[johnforbes]

No, that was not the reason.

You need longitudinal study of many cases, and the first half of this year was the perfect time.

Nobody ever did full studies of the various therapy methods over the full course of many cases.

A socialist like Clown should be making this point, not me, but clearly for profit (remdesivir).

[Clownkicker]

johnny, you're asking why the Trump administration that wouldn't get PPE to doctors and hospitals, refused to start widespread testing and tracing in January, refused to start widespread testing and tracing in February, refused to start widespread testing and tracing in March, then abandoned all widespread testing and tracing leaving it to the states, failed to ensure respirators were adequately supplied around the country where needed, and actually announced a pandemic policy of waiting for miracles, would then also fail to organize adequate drug trials and then left it to the capitalist private sector to do all drug trials, drug development, and drug research. So far they've come up with a protocol that only costs $2300 per patient. Who could have seen that coming?

Even the drug company that makes the HCQ didn't waste their money on a big trial, and they would have had the most to gain. Why do you think that is, johnny?

It seems bizarre to me that you supported Trump's inaction for months on all aspects of the pandemic but now wonder why more critical time and public money wasn't wasted on trials that were returning preliminary negative results.

You got your capitalism in charge of everything pandemic and now you're unhappy with the results capitalism returns.

You sorry, partisan hypocrite asshole...

[johnforbes]

On Feb 17, Fauci said the threat was "minuscule" to the US.

On Mar 30, the WHO said there was no need for masks and this was no big deal.

On Mar 31, the Surgeon General said there was no need for masks and the threat was contained.

Biden was so late that he called Trump racist (the only word Dems know) for closing off from China.

[Clownkicker]

"On Mar 30, the WHO said there was no need for masks and this was no big deal."-johnfibs

Inaccurate, johnny, and you know it. As Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program said on March 30th:
"There also is the issue that we have a massive global shortage," Ryan said about masks and other medical supplies. "Right now the people most at risk from this virus are frontline health workers who are exposed to the virus every second of every day. The thought of them not having masks is horrific."

Just as in the U.S. early on, the WHO policy was that frontline workers should have priority for an extremely limited resource. The MEDICAL policy was not that frontline workers didn't need to wear masks, was it.
The broader public policy will always prioritize those who most need the limited resource and try to make average people feel better about not getting the same resource. If they don't, people start to panic. Why in the world do you think frontline workers all use masks, dimwit? To protect themselves....duhhhh.

I realize that this is all rocket science to you, but intelligent people understand public policy must deal with the public. And the public includes all sort of dimwits just like you who are incapable of grasping any nuance in policy, so they make it simple (or more accurately-"simplistic." Remember, fully half the human population of the world has below-average intelligence. If YOU don't get it, how do you expect the rest of the population to get it?

[Clownkicker]

"On Mar 31, the Surgeon General said there was no need for masks and the threat was contained."-johnfibs

Adams never said there was "no need for masks" You made it up.

In public statements in early 2020, the surgeon general had recommended against the general public buying or wearing masks. However, in light of new evidence from the CDC, he changed his views and has since argued in favor of people wearing cloth facial coverings in public settings.

"“It's important to understand that we are looking at the data every single day and we make the best recommendations to the American people we can based on what we know,” Adams said on Tuesday. [March 31]

“What the World Health Organization [WHO] and the CDC [The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] have reaffirmed in the last few days is that they do not recommend the general public wear masks.” [a"recommendation" is a public policy and is not the same thing as saying there is "no need". This was due to the wide shortage of PPE available to care workers who clearly have a need for them, even when Adams was talking.]

He then explained the reasons why.

“On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times,” Adams explained. “We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.” [But the purpose of face masks is not to stop the average wearer from getting disease. It is to stop the average wearer from spreading disease.]

Adams went on to say that wearing a face mask “can also give you a false sense of security." He added that "you see many of these pictures with people out and about closer than six feet to each other, but still wearing a mask.” [This refers to Trump-supporter mentality people who ignore the fact that masks work in conjunction with other best practices, such as distancing--which actually DOES help people avoid getting disease.]

He noted that there are also consequences to wearing masks.

“We still have PPE [Personal protective equipment] shortages across the country,” Adams noted. “The WHO mentioned this in their statement so we want to make sure we are reserving PPE for the people who most need it. That's how you are going to get the largest effect because if healthcare workers get sick, they can't take care of you when you get sick.”

johnny, you need to learn to put these things into context and not just regurgitate your handlers' headline talking points. A "public policy recommendation" is to help the average dimwit do the right thing for the broader population. At the time, the recommendation was to help frontline workers get what they needed FIRST. Now things have changed, so public policy changes, as it should. It doesn't make earlier public policies "lies" as you always pretend. It just means public policy has adapted to changing realities.

Stop living in the past. Stop insisting that current policies should be the same as earlier policy that were based on shortages and ignorance. I know it is hard for conservative minds to change once they get something set in their thick skulls, but TRY to adapt to reality, johnny.

And stop twisting reality into pretzels just to make a ridiculous non-medical partisan argument out of it.

[Clownkicker]

"Biden was so late that he called Trump racist (the only word Dems know) for closing off from China."-johnfibs

But closing off China WAS racist, johnny. The proof is the fact that Trump did not also close down travel from Europe (the far greater threat to U.S. public health) at the same time.

Why? Because a lot of white people live there.

There is no other reason you can give to justify leaving open travel from Europe as a valid public health response at the time.

[divermouse]

where did philip glass jr go?

[johnforbes]

On March 31, 2020, the Surgeon General said just what I said -- that masks were not necessary, and were even bad because they could create a false sense of security.

[Clownkicker]

"On March 31, 2020, the Surgeon General said just what I said -- that masks were not necessary,..."-johnfibs

Only he didn't say that. You made it up. I just showed you what he actually said.

If you're going to pretend he said "masks are not necessary" then provide a quotation from the March 31 speech.

You won't because you can't.


"...and were even bad because they could create a false sense of security."-johnfibs

Only he didn't say they were "bad." That's YOUR faulty conclusion drawn from what he said. It's not what he actually said. You made that up too.

If you insist that's what he said, then you're claiming Adams said that masks could be bad for frontline care providers because they could create a false sense of security. That's just too idiotic, even for a Trump supporter.

You can't continue to make up stupid shit like that when I just quoted what he actually said.

[johnforbes]

He gave many interviews, as anybody can readily ascertain, and he said precisely what I said.

There was a campaign against cheap HCQ for two reasons:

1) Trump cited it, and Orange Man Bad

2) HCQ was cheap, and Gilead (and lobbyists) said let's spend money

[Clownkicker]

"On March 31, 2020, the Surgeon General said just what I said -- that masks were not necessary, and were even bad because they could create a false sense of security."-johnfibs

He never said that, "precisely" or otherwise. You made it up.

The proof that he never said that is that medical professionals around the world use masks precisely because they ARE necessary.

No medically trained person would ever say "masks are not necessary" and no medically trained person would ever say "masks are bad."

Provide a quotation from the Adams saying "precisely" that "masks are not necessary" and "masks are bad" or kindly go fuck yourself.

[johnforbes]

No, he said what I said he said.

[Clownkicker]

No, he didn't say what you said he said. You only THINK he said what you said he said, but you can't prove it.

What HE actually said matters. That's what quotations are for.

What YOU claim he said is made up stupid shit if you can't quote him saying it.

See the difference?

[elklindo69]

Johnnie...don't be a moron.

Just wear the fucking mask...............

[johnforbes]

On March 31, the Surgeon General reiterated his advice to NOT wear a mask which he said could "actually increase your risk."

"What the World Health Organization and the CDC have reaffirmed in the last few days is that they do not recommend the general public wear masks."

He cited a 2015 study showing that med students touched their faces more when wearing masks (after touching a contaminated surface) than the non-masked. So mask adjustment might increase face touching.

Dr Adams mentioned the risk that mask wearing might lull wearers into a false sense of security about proximity to others.
"There may be a day when we change our recommendation...but the data is not there yet."

[Clownkicker]

"On Mar 31, the Surgeon General said there was no need for masks and the threat was contained."-johnfibs

Adams never said there was "no need for masks" You made it up. That you failed to produce a quotation from him saying so is proof he didn't say it.

In public statements in early 2020, the surgeon general had recommended against the general public buying or wearing masks. However, in light of new evidence from the CDC, he changed his views and has since argued in favor of people wearing cloth facial coverings in public settings.

"“It's important to understand that we are looking at the data every single day and we make the best recommendations to the American people we can based on what we know,” Adams said on Tuesday. [March 31]

“What the World Health Organization [WHO] and the CDC [The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] have reaffirmed in the last few days is that they do not recommend the general public wear masks.” [a"recommendation" is a public policy and is not the same thing as saying there is "no need". This was due to the wide shortage of PPE available to care workers who clearly have a need for them, even when Adams was talking.]

He then explained the reasons why.

“On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times,” Adams explained. “We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.” [But the purpose of face masks is not to stop the average wearer from getting disease. It is to stop the average wearer from spreading disease.]

Adams went on to say that wearing a face mask “can also give you a false sense of security." He added that "you see many of these pictures with people out and about closer than six feet to each other, but still wearing a mask.” [This refers to Trump-supporter mentality people who ignore the fact that masks work in conjunction with other best practices, such as distancing--which actually DOES help people avoid getting disease.]

He noted that there are also consequences to wearing masks.

“We still have PPE [Personal protective equipment] shortages across the country,” Adams noted. “The WHO mentioned this in their statement so we want to make sure we are reserving PPE for the people who most need it. That's how you are going to get the largest effect because if healthcare workers get sick, they can't take care of you when you get sick.”

johnny, you need to learn to put these things into context and not just regurgitate your handlers' headline talking points. A "public policy recommendation" is to help the average dimwit do the right thing for the broader population. At the time, the recommendation was to help frontline workers get what they needed FIRST. Now things have changed, so public policy changes, as it should. It doesn't make earlier public policies "lies" as you always pretend. It just means public policy has adapted to changing realities.

Stop living in the past. Stop insisting that current policies should be the same as earlier policy that were based on shortages and ignorance. I know it is hard for conservative minds to change once they get something set in their thick skulls, but TRY to adapt to reality, johnny.

And stop twisting reality into pretzels just to make a ridiculous non-medical partisan argument out of it.

[Clownkicker]

johnforbes will be disappointed that his deeply partisan wishing for a miracle cure proved to be just that--- partisan wishing for a miracle.
Welcome to the hard reality of the real world where liberals acknowledge cause and effect over magical politcally-based policies, johnny.

“Today’s preliminary results from the RECOVERY trial are quite clear – hydroxychloroquine does not reduce the risk of death among hospitalized patients with this new disease,” University of Oxford epidemiologist Martin Landray, one of the study’s leaders, said in a statement. “This result should change medical practice worldwide and demonstrates the importance of large, randomized trials to inform decisions about both the efficacy and the safety of treatments.”

"A total of 1,542 received hydroxychloroquine, and 3,132 received usual care. After 28 days of treatment, 25.7% of those on hydroxychloroquine and 23.5% of those received usual care had died, meaning those on hydroxychloroquine were 11% more likely to die. That difference was not statistically significant.

There was “no beneficial effect” on how long patients stayed in the hospital, or on other outcomes."-statnews


As we all see, Fauci was correct not to waste any more time and money on the NIH trial that had returned preliminary negative results.
Now, will johnforbes please recognize scientific realities and stop yammering on about how much he "wants" HCQ to be some sort of Trump miracle vindication? Nobody cares what you naively "want", johnny.

Please join us in promoting rational science-backed behaviors by reckless Trump supporters and help us fight this thing.

[johnforbes]

Sadly, Clown spent far too many years of his wasted youth in the "hard world" of the Frisco baths.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^ There's another example of the intellectually "limp world" johnforbes has occupied his entire life.

He can't rationally refute a thing I said so he pathetically attempts his usual pussy ad hominem bullshit.

What this means is he chooses not to join us in promoting rational science-backed behaviors by reckless Trump supporters and help us fight this thing.

[johnforbes]

No, your Latin was wrong.

It was more of an "ad homo" remark.

[elklindo69]

Johnnie.....you have the proclivity of weaponizing racism and stupidity.

[johnforbes]

Why thanks for that unsolicited praise.

My remark was not ad hominem, but -- in his case -- ad homonem.

[divermouse]

slim shady says

y'all act like y'all never noticed the truth before
god, news, science mocked and ignored
them alternative facts a golden whore
grabbin at straws and oil, like decades before
stealing and fucking the poor
won't john forbes please grow up, please grow up

[johnforbes]

That white kid , who pretends to be "tough" rapping nonsense, couldn't snap a dry potato chip.

In fact, he lost a hotly contested arm-wrestling match to Ruth Bader Ginsburg on her 85th birthday.

[elklindo69]

Fact check John Forbes posts and Donald Trump and you find the same thing......nothing.