[johnforbes]

Mattis has been after Trump for bone spurs, and of course it would be interesting to know if they were real or fake.

But where did Mattis serve in Vietnam, the biggest war of his lifetime?

Nowhere.

Mattis, who wanted a full military career, sat in the safety of college while Vietnam burned on and people just like me were drafted.

Later, when the war was over and he was a young officer, he discovered the machismo that made him be called "Mad Dog."

But a "mad dog" in actual combat, at a low level, will become a dead dog.

All these people find their machismo when they personally are out of danger.

[sillydaddy]

".. In May 2004 Mattis ordered the 3 a.m. bombing of a suspected enemy safe house near the Syrian border, which later came to be known as the Mukaradeeb wedding party massacre and resulted in the deaths of 42 civilians, including 11 women and 14 children..."

~~ From his bio

[elklindo69]

"So Trump earned his spurs in a letter from his doctor."

LOL...hahaaaaa

[johnforbes]

Perhaps Trump did have bone spurs, as Clinton also claimed?

Either way, why did Mattis sit in college while millions of men his own age were drafted to fight the biggest war of his lifetime?

[elklindo69]

Mattis didn't get any draft deferments.

Trump avoided military service like the plague.

[Clownkicker]

You really have to wonder about johnforbes' patriotism and contempt for the military.

He once again is only too happy to give the benefit of the doubt to Trump whom no one (including his doctor) actually believes had bone spurs, yet he questions Mattis' patriotism because he was getting an education when no one could have known at the time that the Vietnam War would be ending shortly after he graduated from college.

Considering the useless education johnforbes acquired for himself, I can understand that he believes the education others pursued is a waste of time. There is nothing johnforbes respected more than being ordered about by a high school graduate who couldn't cut it in college.

johnforbes also repeatedly questions the motivations of EVERY career military person who was in West Point or Annapolis or the Air Force Academy in 1969 and 1970 and 1971. He insinuates that ALL of them were draft dodging instead of actually taking the best path they saw to become career military officers to serve our country as patriots. But somehow he can't bring himself to bring the same skepticism to bear on Trump, who did nothing whatsoever to serve his country, either during "the biggest war of his lifetime" nor afterwards.

johnforbes looks down his nose at draft dodgers......unless they are Republicans, of course. Then he votes for them to run our military.

There is NOTHING johnforbes isn't hypocritical about.

[sillydaddy]

Mattis didn't get any draft deferments.

After causing the death of women and children...
and abandoning American soldiers in the field..
He should have been classified 4F and never allowed to serve a singie day..!

[johnforbes]

It is unknown how Mattis was unable to remain in college, but perhaps because he was in ROTC?

Or perhaps he got a favorable lottery number.

But my point is that he allowed young soldiers to refer to him as "Mad Dog" when the simple truth is that nobody is macho when 10,000 miles from home in a combat zone.

Then, Mattis needlessly expressed contempt for the guy who appointed him to a cabinet position, but Mattis didn't serve in the biggest war of his lifetime any more than Trump did.

And it was Mattis, not Trump and not me, who wanted to have a 40-year military career.

[Clownkicker]

See? Once more johnforbes makes insinuations about the motives of a 40-year military man but hasn't once criticized Trump's draft dodging and lack of service.

johnny's contempt for those who serve in military careers is mystifying and can only be explained by his chronic hypocrisy and his obvious Trump Derangement Syndrome in which he is incapable of evaluating Trump in any rational manner.

[johnforbes]

Clown, you were in diapers during Vietnam and don't understand.

It was Mattis who called himself "Mad Dog," and it was Mattis who brought up Trump's alleged or real draft-dodging.

Clown, are you sure you want to criticizes Bill Clinton and all the other Democrats (Schumer, on and on) who dodged?

Perhaps Trump did dodge, or perhaps he slid sideways like Bush Jr into the Texas Air Guard, I just don't know.

But Mattis invited attention to the fact that he, while WANTING A LONG MILITARY CAREER, spent the biggest war of his lifetime safe in college.

Meanwhile, millions were drafted to go fight it, and those were people not seeking a military career.

So Mattis should shut up on this issue.

As to Mattis' career, by most accounts he was okay and received many honors for his time, but -- like everybody else -- he only discovered his machismo in a combat zone while at a safe rank.

Nobody is macho at a low rank in a combat zone -- not you, not me, not Mattis, not Trump, not anybody who is honest.

[Clownkicker]

"Clown, you were in diapers during Vietnam and don't understand."-johnfibs

That's just more ignorant conservative made up stupid shit. You don't know what you're talking about, but this is hardly anything new. You're a conservative.

"Clown, are you sure you want to criticizes Bill Clinton and all the other Democrats (Schumer, on and on) who dodged?"-johnflubs

I don't want to criticize ANYONE who dodged Vietnam, dimwit. But I do call bullshit on those who criticize some and actually support others. This means I call bullshit on dishonest hypocritical scumbags like you.

Meanwhile, you criticize Mattis for dodging "the biggest war of his lifetime" when he was commissioned in 1972. That's three years before the Vietnam war ended. So he didn't dodge anything, did he. He could have been ordered to Vietnam, but he wasn't. That's not his fault, yet you insinuate he is on a lower level than Trump with his outright evasion.

That makes you partisan scum of the lowest order.

johnforbes is the kind of guy who supports an unstanble Captain Queeg and hates a dutiful Lt. Maryk. Mattis did what he did not because he wanted to do it, but because he thought all of us needed to know what was going on.

johnforbes and other Republicans have no interest in what is actually going on. They look the other way and point fingers elsewhere. They despise reality and they want to live in La La Land under a dictator without Congressional oversight so they can live in some delusional 'safety'. All the while everything Trump does makes them and all of us LESS safe. Every action of Republican Trump supporters supports this assertion.

In short, Mattis made himself subject to service in Vietnam while Trump fled. But johnforbes is STILL yammering about why this justifies his denigration of Mattis' service and his undeserved support of a cowardly President.

[johnforbes]

No, it was easy to enlist back then for any healthy guy, and that is because they were drafting men by the hundreds of thousands.

Mattis obviously wanted to remain in college, to avoid the war on the front page of every newspaper, and later serve as an officer.

But what did he miss?

He missed out on the biggest war of his lifetime, and the priceless experience it could have conveyed about false machismo.

Nobody is macho at a low rank in a combat zone.

Nobody calls themselves "Mad Dog" or allows others to spread such idiocy.

Anybody healthy in college during those years could easily have joined up, and Mattis should have given his desire for a long military career.

But try to grasp the point -- I only mentioned this because he seems to deem himself more macho than Trump, but he bases that on also avoiding Vietnam and waiting to discover how tough he was at a safe rank in peacetime.

[Clownkicker]

^^^^^^See? Exactly as I said. johnforbes casts aspersions on a 40 year military man and ignores entirely Trump's cowardice. It's unconscionable.

johnforbes ignores the facts, as always. They are that Mattis made himself subject to service in Vietnam for three years while Trump fled. But johnforbes is STILL yammering about why this justifies his denigration of Mattis' service and his undeserved support of a chicken hawk President who never served a day in his life.

Furthermore, johnforbes made up the stupid shit about Mattis calling himself "Mad Dog" when not even people who knows Mattis ever calls him that.

"That nickname was given to me by the press, and some of you may have experienced similar occasions with the press where perhaps they didn't get it quite right," Mattis said during his testimony. [in his Senate confirmation hearing]
Mattis acquired the nickname "Mad Dog" -- a moniker that is not used by people who know him, friends say -- after he made comments such as "be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet" and "a good soldier follows orders, but a true warrior wears his enemy's skin like a poncho."-

[johnforbes]

Clown, your problem is that you don't know the era.

Back then, EVERYBODY who was young and male and healthy was thinking about Vietnam.

It was on the front page of every newspaper, and led every newscast.

Mattis wanted to be a career soldier, and yet he oddly sat out the biggest war of his lifetime in college, knowing all the time that other young boys were being drafted and sent to fight there.

So he was not a "mad dog" then at all, and he surely was bright enough to know that Vietnam was a big, big deal -- and it turned out to be the biggest war of his lifetime.

I'm sure Mattis is a fine fellow, but I'm also sure he should shut the hell up about Trump because both of them sat out the war in the safety of college.

[Clownkicker]

johnny, your problem is you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, as always when you open your ignorant trap.

I faced the draft the same as you, yet you keep repeating your lie even though I have told you more than once it isn't true. I know the times "back then" perfectly well.

And Mattis didn't "sit out the war in the safety of college." He was commissioned in 1972; plenty of time to ship out to a war that ended in 1975. He just wasn't sent, though unlike Trump, he could have been. And in Mattis' college years nobody (including Nixon or Mattis or you) knew the war wasn't going to continue for another decade.

Believe it or not, everyone who was in the military back then wasn't ordered to Vietnam. We DID have a few other commitments back then. One would think you would know that.

[johnforbes]

But you are showing you do not know the era.

Combat operations ended in 1973.

Everybody -- much less some young person seeking a commission and seeking a career in the military -- knew very, very, very well what the hot years of the war were.

Mattis was classic Vietnam age, and he could very, very, very easily have enlisted upon high school graduation.

I wouldn't say one single thing about him were it not for him mocking Trump for not having served in Vietnam.

But Mattis -- who needed experience, who surely wanted seasoning, who planned a full, long career in the military -- wanted no part of Vietnam at a low rank during the hot years.

I don't blame him for wanting to survive -- we all did -- but he was a total hypocrite because this was the career he wanted.

So people like my brother-in-law were drafted out of law school and sent to fight in place of people just like Mattis who wanted military careers.

Surely you see what I'm saying, and surely you realize I'm not slamming Mattis for wanting to live, but merely noting that low ranking people in a hot war are NOT macho.

A few people in every war, an Audie Murphy in WW II, an Alvin York in WW I (and he at first a conscientious objector), display machismo.

Anybody else who tries it ends up dead at a young age.

The mad dog was a timid kitten back then, we both know it.

[Clownkicker]

So you're saying Mattis was only subject to being sent to Vietnam for a year or so. So he didn't "sit out the war" did he.
He just wasn't ordered to go there. That in no way reflects on Mattis.

But thank you for admitting you were wrong.

When Mattis was in college, no one had any idea how long the war would last, did they. There seemed to be no end in sight at the time. Mattis likely believed he would go as an officer. You have no idea but you sneer at him anyway.
Just because you hold education in contempt, I don't. It's perfectly reasonable that someone wanting a military career would go through officer training first. At the time Mattis had no idea that war would be over before he was ordered to go.

Meanwhile, Mattis only served in the Persian Gulf War, the War in Afghanistan, and the Iraq War. Why you look down your nose at veterans of those wars is beyond me. Apparently you believe those wars were not 'big enough' to be considered actual wars.

[johnforbes]

I'm only sneering at his dishonesty.

If he hadn't started inviting more attention to Trump's bone spurs (or lack thereof), then I wouldn't have mentioned that Mattis too avoided the war.

It was ISSUE NUMBER ONE. It was the front page headline. It was the first story on the news.

Mattis certainly took every exemption knowing what it meant.

The year he graduated high school was 1968, I believe, and that and 1969 were hot, hot years and Mattis had to know that.

He also had to know that boys who were not going to college, as he was, would have to serve in his place.

Clinton knew that, and Gingrich, and Bush Junior, and Trump too.

But they were not prancing and preening, as Mattis was.

So it is utterly reasonable to ask why he didn't serve in the biggest war of his lifetime given his ambition for a long, full military career.

[elklindo69]

So Johnnie...you sneer at Mattis' dishonesty and ignore Trump's dishonesty.

Talk about hypocrisy on steroids.

[johnforbes]

Elkin, you seem to be unable to read.

Mattis was the one sneering at Trump for bone spurs and avoiding Vietnam.

But Mattis -- who had a full career as a general -- avoided it too, so that makes Mattis a hypocrite.

Trump wanted to be a builder, like his father, not a general.

Elkin, you would have been a weasel and a dodger too if you had been of age in the Vietnam Era, so that appears to be why you favor the hypocrisy of Mattis.