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After Stewart slammed Trump, which showed Stewart knew nothing about the real estate business, it turned out that Stewart himself had vastly overstated the value of his own NYC casa.

In other news, the value of Clowntoker's postings on this fine forum were also overvalued by 829 percent over the past 78 years he has posted online.

No...his property sold what the based upon what the market is willing to pay for it.

If you knew anything about residential real estate the government assesses property values for tax purposes. And there is what the market is willing to pay for the property. Both values are independent of each other. Now Trump claimed Mar de Lago was worth 1.8 billion, but Trump's own company agreed with the assessed value by the government. The property was deeded as commercial not residential, which lowered his tax rate on the property. He deeded it as commercial to lower his tax rates.

Now it's fraudulent for Trump to claim his property is worth 1.8 billion, knowing very well that the property was deeded as commercial and assessed at the 25 million or whatever. And then lying to banks claiming it was worth some 500 million to get favorable loan rate.

The Engoron theory was utter nonsense and the entire case was merely "lawfare" designed to remove Trump as a political opponent.

Trump's loan applications had professionally written caveats at their beginning, and the lenders do their own due diligence anyhow.

The lenders were happy and repaid, and would be glad to do business again.

Nobody was defrauded, and Trump operated in the SOP for real estate investing.

Lying on a loan application is fraud. Trump lied on his loan application by overstating the values of the properties. Trump falsified the data so he could get favorable terms on the loan. That's fraud. Cut and dried no questions asked.

What is it that you don't understand? I'm not getting it?

Yes..and the banks took him at his word......and didn't bother to go out there and see if the properties even existed..
They just handed him the money , no questioned asked... Bad, Bad Trump..
But now New York says , "you don't owe the banks...you owe us....

Since everyone is apparently thrilled to loan Trump money, I wonder how much of his own money johnforbes would lend to Trump?

I bet the number is somewhere in the neighborhood of "none".

But I guess that makes sense because johnny sunk all of his liquid net worth into DJT stock at $77 bucks a share yesterday. And why? Trump supporter "due diligence" -- johnforbes simply believes everything Trump tells him.

Smooth move EX LAX.

You think the banks used their own money do you . Clown?

^^^^^^ ...and with a baffling forbesian non sequitur, another dimwitted Trump supporter(sillydummy) somehow determines that Trump's breaking the law is okay since banks don't loan their own money. (Huh?)

sillydaddy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:30 am Yes..and the banks took him at his word......and didn't bother to go out there and see if the properties even existed..
They just handed him the money , no questioned asked... Bad, Bad Trump..
But now New York says , "you don't owe the banks...you owe us....

If you knew any better Finanical institutions and investors rely on independent auditing firms to audit financial statements to ensure they are accurate. It's not worth the time, money and effort for any financial institution to audit Trump themselves, so they relied on Mazars accounting.

And apparently Trump was providing Mazars with fraudulent information. As the old saying goes, garbage in garbage out. So Mazars backed out and said that Trump's financial statements were not reliable because he misstated the values of his assets. Henceforth, that's why nobody would ever dare posting bond for Trump. What was is according to Trump? Some 30 or so? Ironically who knows if that is a reliable statement.....

Elkin knows that bankers have cold eyes.

They do their own due diligence, and they have to.

The lenders were repaid, they were happy to do business in the future with Trump, and there was no fraud.

Some sane appellate judge will overturn this ridiculous mess.

By the way the charges against Trump are not that he committed fraud ..he is accused of " conspiracy" to....commit fraud.
so that New York laws say, prosecutors do not need to prove there were victims in conspiracy charges...

^^^^^^^ Wow, this is so simple that what eludes the flabby legal mind of johnforbes completely can be understood even by an ignorant child, apparently...

When will johnforbes start discussing crimes Trump is actually charged with as opposed to propaganda from his wacky Right Wing nutjob conspiracy sites?

Good question.

When will the fantastic forebrain of Forbes fall for fantasy from leftist wackos like Clowntoker?

Not soon.

When will the feeble forebrain of Forbes fall for fantasy from rightist wackos like his partisan handlers which he obediently regurgitates?

Every single day, apparently.

We all fear the fearsome frolicking of Clownfoker in fetid Frisco.

Similary, we relentlessly revile the rollicking rearending Clowntoker relishes.

johnforbes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:19 am Elkin knows that bankers have cold eyes.

They do their own due diligence, and they have to.

The lenders were repaid, they were happy to do business in the future with Trump, and there was no fraud.

Some sane appellate judge will overturn this ridiculous mess.

Trump committed fraud by falsifying his financial records. There is absolutely no question about that.

So according to your logic if a someone were to lie on their mortgage application and they were still to pay if off, then that is not fraud? Therefore, also according to your logic, a viable defense would be to claim that the lender "was not harmed" therefore there is no crime???

And this is supposedly coming from the party of "law and order?"

Elkin, the elements of the crime were not present.

To be fraud, somebody must have been defrauded.

Nobody was.

Also, the judge (and Democrat fans of his) are revealing their ignorance as to how real estate works. What Trump did was SOP.

The lenders were repaid and happy. and willing to do business with Trump again.

No fraud, but a political prosecution by Democrats.

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

According to the law Trump committed fraud by falsifying his business records. That is crystal clear. No questions asked.

elklindo, don't confuse johnforbes with something as abstract as "the law".

johnny's brain is incapable of comprehending it, as he demonstrates here on a regular basis. His idea of arguing the law is to make impotent ad hominem attacks on people who made him look like a fool.

Notice dimwit johnny can never cite any relevant statutes or rational arguments to support his purely partisan positions. He can't even grasp the charges filed against Trump and instead considers the substance of internet gossip site postings to be legal arguments.

Utterly absurd.

Bill C paid 850,000 to Paula Jones and nobody mounted some silly lawfare like this.

Stormy Daniels is on record as saying there was no affair.

Clowntoker is so dumb as to think citing some statute about fraud means there was fraud in the instant case.

The judge has to recuse under NY rules because a first degree relative stands to profit from the case.

His daughter is a leftist advocate who worked in digital persuasion for Kackling Kamala.

His wife donates to Act Blue.

Clowntoker merely acts out.

Generally speaking a 20,000 square foot rounding error on a 10,0000 square foot property is obviously fraud. And not to mention the fact that the Dozy Don signed off on the documentation indicating that it was 10,000 square feet. And also not to mention that is where he lived.

As if he didn't know that he was living in half acre condo???

Aww, let's cut Trump some slack on his real estate estimation skills.

After all, one can only pity the sort of mentally ill person who claims with a straight face that he lives on the 68th floor of a 58-story building.

For there to be fraud, somebody has to be defrauded.

In the instant case, nobody was.

The lenders were repaid and happy, and said they would be glad to do business again with Trump, who had merely conformed to the SOP of real estate.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, and even though Elkin's mind is small, it is a shame he wastes it.

How small is Elkin's mind? Well, let's just say it is so small that the mice walk bent over.

And, speaking of walking bent over, Clowntoker walks that way after his wacky weekends of depraved deeds in fetid Frisco...

NY Penal Law § 170.10: Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree

Under this statute, a person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree if they, with the intent to defraud, make or cause a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, or alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any such record. The enterprise can be any type of organization, including corporations, partnerships, non-profit organizations, and government agencies.

The statute is designed to protect the integrity of business records and prevent fraudulent activities that could harm individuals, organizations, or the public. Examples of conduct that may be covered under this statute include falsifying financial statements, tampering with accounting records, or concealing information to misrepresent the true financial or operational condition of a business.

There was no intent to defraud, and nobody was defrauded.

As soon as Elkin learns to read, he will apologize to Mr Forbes, who -- graceful as he always is -- will politely accept.

Of course there was intent to defraud.

Can't you read a simple fraudulent loan application, johnny?

Simply including a disclaimer that says "Of course I could be lying about all these numbers I've given you" does not get someone off the hook for lying, dummy.

Sorry, you don't understand intent.

It isn't for some tedious troll on the insipid Interwebs to declare that, in their fevered hatred of Trump, they discern intent.

"There was no intent to defraud,..."johnfuckingmoron

Sorry, you don't understand intent.

It isn't for some tedious troll on the insipid Interwebs to declare that, in their fevered love of Trump, they discern no intent.

See how it works, dimwit? My comment is every bit as valid as your completely unsupported comment.

If mine is not valid, then yours is not valid, so you're saying no one should pay any attention to your unsupported partisan stupidity.

At least we all agree on that, so that's something.

We all agree that Clowntoker wouldn't understand mens rea if Roscoe Pound himself explained it.

Of course, Roscoe had no law degree and was pretty much making everything up.

Just as Clowntoker is.

When you claim on your financial statements that...

1. Your property is 30,000 instead of 10,000 sq/ft.
2. Your building magically grew 10 floors.

That is intending to defraud a lender.

Try doing the same on your mortgage application and see how fast they will arrest your dumb ass.

The man is supposedly a wiz at real estate development, yet here's Dishonestjohn insisting with a straight face that Trump was honestly unaware that his own 10,000 square foot home wasn't 30,000 square feet.

Heck, even johnforbes would know the difference, and he's a complete moron. So what is he telling us about Trump?

"No intent" Criminy, what a fucking imbecile... Trump obviously knew it, and he intentionally lied about it on his application.

Your 10,000 square foot home can easily increase to 30,000.

All you need to do is add on.

Four car garage and we're still building on, so maybe it's time to get back to the basics:

"Your 10,000 square foot home can easily increase to 30,000.
All you need to do is add on."-Dumfuckjohnforbes

It could, but it didn't, did it, johnfuckhead.

Or are you saying Trump has built a 69th, 70th, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, and 74th floor onto his 58-story Trump Tower that nobody knows about but you and Trump?

Notice johnforbes is here claiming that Trump, a lifetime real estate developer with a Wharton degree, doesn't know the square footage of his own home to within plus-or-minus 1000 square feet. And that's who Dishonestjohn wants acquitted of blatant fraud and running America.

Let me explain urban real estate to clown.

Take Hong Kong, which is densely populated.

You don't build laterally, but upward.

These newfangled edifices are called "skyscrapers"...

Let me explain some very simple mathematics to John Forbes.

Take numbers, the most basic is called an integer.

You see, the newfangled edifices called skyscrapers have a fixed number of floors after construction is completed.

Therefore a building that has 58 floors....has 58 floors. The building does not have 68 floors. Because 58 does not equal 68.

I hope that makes sense to you......

"Let me explain urban real estate to His Lordship.
Take Hong Kong, which is densely populated.
You don't build laterally, but upward.
These newfangled edifices are called "skyscrapers"..."-johnfibs


Incredible.

I was joking, but after explaining to us that he himself had built laterally a 20,000 square foot garage onto his own 10,000 square foot home as an example of how a 10,000 square foot home could easily grow to 30,000 square feet without the owner's knowledge, johnforbes actually returned to claim Trump had built "upward" a 69th, 70th, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, and 74th floor onto his 58-story Trump Tower skyscraper to make his home 30,000 square feet that nobody knows about but him and Trump.

That is johnny's actual defense of Trump's blatant loan application fraud.

I hate to tell you, but that defense is not going to hold up in court. Someone's eventually going to go outside and look up and notice that Trump Tower is still only 58 stories tall.

"Lock him up! Lock him up!" (This isn't "hate for Trump," johnny. I'm just pretending I'm at a Trump political rally and that's what people who love America do, right?)